Originally Posted by Taunton

The problem with your post is that good, logical arguments can be made against every other statement you just made, where none can be made for religion.

Ok, I'm just going to throw in a few items related to positive religious influence, and I will be letting this specific portion of the discussion die as there is no good coming of this.

North American institutions were created based on religious morals.
Most (older) major Universities were created with religious centrality.
Outreach programs concerning disease and war were often created by religious centrality (Think red cross and expand from there)

A large portion of historic positives in politics were driven by religion (not just Christianity/North America either)

Anyways, have fun doing what you can to tear this to shreds.

Originally Posted by kldv

Ok, I'm just going to throw in a few items related to positive religious influence, and I will be letting this specific portion of the discussion die as there is no good coming of this.

North American institutions were created based on religious morals.
Most (older) major Universities were created with religious centrality.
Outreach programs concerning disease and war were often created by religious centrality (Think red cross and expand from there)

A large portion of historic positives in politics were driven by religion (not just Christianity/North America either)

Anyways, have fun doing what you can to tear this to shreds.

Many would argue that science is a result of religion as well (primarily Islam).

Think of it this way - there's a very good reason as to why the majority of institutions and organizations which once were religious in nature are not any longer.

Originally Posted by Taunton

Zero good comes from religion.

what about religious charities? in terms of a net effect religion may not be good, but you can't say zero good comes from religion. well you can say whatever you want, but it doesn't make it so.

Originally Posted by brendanp

what about religious charities? .

What about non-religious charities? Are religious charities providing charity because they are religious or are they providing charity because it's the right thing to do?

If it was because of religion, then non-religious charities would not exist, however since people can be good without religion, then the charity must exist for other reasons.

Religion is an insult to humanity. Without religion, you'd have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But, for good people to do evil things, it takes religion. - Steven Weinberg

Originally Posted by Taunton

What about non-religious charities? Are religious charities providing charity because they are religious or are they providing charity because it's the right thing to do?

If it was because of religion, then non-religious charities would not exist, however since people can be good without religion, then the charity must exist for other reasons.

Could you actually do me a favour and let me know of a reasonable list of charities that started without any major religious affiliation? I actually can't think of any off the top of my head.

Originally Posted by kldv

Could you actually do me a favour and let me know of a reasonable list of charities that started without any major religious affiliation? I actually can't think of any off the top of my head.

I dunno, but anything medically related? o_O

Originally Posted by lawleypop

I dunno, but anything medically related? o_O

the red cross/red crescent started off as religious-based

I'll try to put some down, but I don't have time to make a research project out of it. The problem is that I have to look into the history of each organization that I would list.

Originally Posted by Taunton

the red cross/red crescent started off as religious-based

I'll try to put some down, but I don't have time to make a research project out of it. The problem is that I have to look into the history of each organization that I would list.

Okay, what about things like the Terry Fox foundation? Or some of those alzheimers ones... That's what I meant when I said medically related

I'm pretty sure this isn't a charity, but what about the WWF? but things of that nature.

Originally Posted by kldv

Could you actually do me a favour and let me know of a reasonable list of charities that started without any major religious affiliation? I actually can't think of any off the top of my head.

Most disease foundations/societies (ie heart & stroke foundation, all cancer societies/foundations, Alzheimer's, etc).

Big Brothers Big Sisters

Canadian Women's Foundation

Daily Bread Food Bank (which started as a non-denominational organization and continues to be)

MADD

Save the Children

UNICEF

That's enough for now, hopefully that satisfies you; if you really want to find more, you are welcome to do it yourself.

Originally Posted by lawleypop

Okay, what about things like the Terry Fox foundation? Or some of those alzheimers ones... That's what I meant when I say medically related (red cross was an obvious exception )

I'm pretty sure this isn't a charity, but what about the WWF? but things of that nature.

Terry Fox is another good example, and the WWF is one as well.

Actually, the Red Cross isn't and wasn't a religious charity. It was started by a Swiss businessman who used a red cross because it was the inverse of the Swiss flag (a white cross on red background).

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

Actually, the Red Cross isn't and wasn't a religious charity. It was started by a Swiss businessman who used a red cross because it was the inverse of the Swiss flag (a white cross on red background).

Thanks! I'm curious then why they chose to use a red crescent in muslim countries, if religion plays no part in the organization? I can't seem to find it on the wikipedia article.

Originally Posted by Taunton

Thanks! I'm curious then why they chose to use a red crescent in muslim countries, if religion plays no part in the organization? I can't seem to find it on the wikipedia article.

I believe it's because of the connotations the symbol (ie. the cross) would have for people who didn't know the history of the organization (such as people here who assumed that cross=religious organization)

Originally Posted by Taunton

What about non-religious charities? Are religious charities providing charity because they are religious or are they providing charity because it's the right thing to do?

If it was because of religion, then non-religious charities would not exist, however since people can be good without religion, then the charity must exist for other reasons.

Religion is an insult to humanity. Without religion, you'd have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But, for good people to do evil things, it takes religion. - Steven Weinberg

i never said you can't have a charity without religion, or that religion is the reason people donate to charities. you said that nothing good comes from religion, i was just pointing out that there are a lot of charities that are started/funded by religious groups.

Originally Posted by cocchiarella

sit on a different bench

As I said before, the few benches that weren't written on with chalk already had people sitting on them.
Please read posts before replying. It makes this forum thing much easier.