Hey guys, so basically I need some advice. I got accepted to both Life Science and Kinesiology at McMaster next year and I am really having trouble choosing which program to go into. My ultimate goal is to go to medical school after completing my undergrad BUT I also want a backup plan just in case it doesnt happen to work out or if I change my mind. I've been looking at both programs and it seems like kin has more options for me if i don't end up going into medical school but i also heard that life sci is better because it makes you take the required courses needed to get into med school. So which program do you think would be better considering what I've mentioned? Please let me know what you guys think, I could really use some help making this decision, thank you.
Kyle

Congratulations on your acceptances!!

Now I'm not trying to push you away from Macinsiders or anything, but there are already a number of posts on the same question, where MI members have provided some advice already. For instance, if you look above your own post, there's a box that says "similar threads". Or you could also use the search toolbar. I would strongly recommend that you read these threads and maybe ask questions within them if you want some clarification.

Best of luck with your decision!

Ok, I know there are other threads but I'll just say one thing: Try to select the program that you believe that you are the most interested in and that you will want to study for four years. You can take the required courses for med. school in Kin. easily, and I know a few people who have done so and have gotten into med. school. There are also other people who have gone into med. school with B.A.'s so you might as well enjoy what you are studying. Hope that helps.

it really does depend on what you love

i was in life science, but i took one kin course.. it was brutal for me, i just couldn't memorize all the different parts. and the exam was 60%..no midterm though!

your safest bet is to go into life science
i say this because after your undergrad in kinesiology, there is not much you can do with your degree without doing a masters
in life sciences, there is probably not alot of jobs OUTSIDE of the academia world that you can do,
however with life sciences, you can always choose to major in something, and hopefully that major has job opportunities
say you specialize in soemthing like biochemistry - there are alot of jobs such as biotech companies that you can work for however, it might be difficult to find these positions on your own, and you might need to join co-op for that expereince

Originally Posted by jordan19

your safest bet is to go into life science
i say this because after your undergrad in kinesiology, there is not much you can do with your degree without doing a masters
in life sciences, there is probably not alot of jobs OUTSIDE of the academia world that you can do,
however with life sciences, you can always choose to major in something, and hopefully that major has job opportunities
say you specialize in soemthing like biochemistry - there are alot of jobs such as biotech companies that you can work for however, it might be difficult to find these positions on your own, and you might need to join co-op for that expereince

I wouldn't follow this advice. There is actually plenty to do in Kin with just a bachelors such as being a Certified Kinesiology or Certified Exercise Physiologist, plus a lot of opportunities similar to what you have in life sciences.

http://www.science.mcmaster. ca/kin...are-doing.html

However, whether or not to go into Kinesiology is a tough decision.

If you want to go to med school either program will work fine. While going into the Life Sciences forces you to take the required courses, you have more flexibility as to when you take them with Kin than you do with Life Sci.

There is a big difference I find between Kin and other Science courses (at least in the first year, I couldn't tell you about upper years yet). The other courses generally make a handful of attempts to provide "real life examples" of where what they're teaching will be useful. On the other hand, except for Anatomy and Physiology, application seems to be worked in to a much greater extent.

There is also a big focus on research in Kin. Your first semester next year you take Research Methods and Data Analysis which provides an introduction to research design, the basic philosophy of research, and practical statistical methods. (I've posted a review) You'll also learn some more about study design in Physical Activity Epidemiology. But more importantly the non A&P courses have a strong focus on the research going on today in that field, and on the studies that lead us to our current knowledge.

If I were you I'd seriously consider two things beyond what I've said:
1) If not a Doctor then what?
-not necessarily a particular job but do you want to be working in a biochemistry lab, or would you rather be going and getting a PT degree or would you even prefer going into research (and if so, what on?)?
2) Which courses sound more appealing to me?

1) Calc is only a requirement for ~30 American Med Schools and a full year of it is a requirement for even fewer. (Harvard and some MSTP's which Canadians can't apply for are the only ones I can recall). You have to take a semester of it anyways for kin.

2) If you want to go to med school you can look at my example. Heres what I did/ am doing:
1st Year
6 Kin courses
Bio 1A03
Chem 1R03 (for those who didn't do it in high school)
Italian 1A03 (intermediate italian, couldn't take the second half as it conflicted with a required course)
Math 1LS3 (that be your calc).

1st Year Summer
Chem 1A03+1AA3 (your general chem requirement)
Stats 2B03 (not required for med school, although some American schools require a full year of math and allow stats in place of a second semester of calc)- is one of two options to fill an upper level stats requirement for Kin
Humanities 2C03 (just an elective)
English 1AA3 (1/2 of my English requirement done)

2nd Year (Based on tentative schedule)

6 Kin courses
Chem 2OA3+2OB3 (Your Organic Chem requirement)
Bio 1MO3 (Finishing the bio requirement)
Physics 1L03 (For those who didn't have Physics in high school)

2nd year summer
1st half of nonmajor biochem
physics 1B03/1BB3 (physics requirement)
English 1A03 (finished english requirement)

You could write your MCAT at the end of August, which gives you a full month to study while most of the material is still somewhat fresh, and leaves you time to retake. Or you could write it in the summer of your 3rd year.

3) Kin is a great experience: Great profs, great students and you end up knowing your entire program year at least by sight.

It looks at human movement in the "Cell-to-Society" model, which allows you to look at things from a much broader perspective, while keeping a general theme which, in my humble opinion, is far more interesting than the life sciences.

Also, according to your tentative schedule, all kin courses are in MDCL or ITB 137 next year. Great lecture halls. Don't discount this. They are comfy, are in convenient locations (close to each other, food (including off-campus food), good study places, the two libraries that aren't zoo's, and your anatomy labs) and most importantly. feature working internet.

Also, your profs aren't out there trying to figure out how to hold your class to ~70% average.
4) If you decide to hate it, just make sure to check the calendar for the requirements of the different second year programs you might be interested. You might be able to apply out.

Also I posted this in response to another similar thread. I hope its helpful.

being in Life sciences from the start allows you the flexibility to fulfil many of the requirements during your first year
your giving up two summers to fill up pre-reqs that you could easily fill in during the first two years of life sci

Originally Posted by jordan19

being in Life sciences from the start allows you the flexibility to fulfil many of the requirements during your first year
your giving up two summers to fill up pre-reqs that you could easily fill in during the first two years of life sci

It's also because I didn't take chem or physics in high school that I'm taking summer courses.

If I had taken I could be done the prereqs by the end of the second year with no summer work.

And I wouldn't call life sciences flexible. You pretty much have to take your prereqs for med school at certain times, or else you won't be able to take a lot of the upper level courses.

no you wouldnt have been done by second year
you need to take both physics, both chemistries, and both biologies
not to mention both maths and englishes, and orgo in 2nd year
thats 12 courses, and as i recall kin only has 6-7 electives during the first two years
for life sci, chemsitries, biologies, and at least 1 physics are in the course list for the requirements
additionally, you are in different circumstances than the OP since you did not take high school physics or chemistry
the flexibility of electives in second year can allow OP to finish her electives, and i think that would be the most easiest route since some of the pre-reqs are part of the course requirements in life sci

Originally Posted by jordan19

no you wouldnt have been done by second year
you need to take both physics, both chemistries, and both biologies
not to mention both maths and englishes, and orgo in 2nd year
thats 12 courses, and as i recall kin only has 6-7 electives during the first two years
for life sci, chemsitries, biologies, and at least 1 physics are in the course list for the requirements
additionally, you are in different circumstances than the OP since you did not take high school physics or chemistry
the flexibility of electives in second year can allow OP to finish her electives, and i think that would be the most easiest route since some of the pre-reqs are part of the course requirements in life sci

You do NOT need both maths. I already addressed this. Calc is not a requirement for any CANADIAN med school, 1 semester for a handful of American schools, and a full year basically for Harvard and some MD-PhD programs in the states that Canadians can't apply to.

The English requirement is another American one (UBC and Memorial being the only Canadian schools with that requirement off the top of my head), which I am only doing because I plan to apply to a few American schools. For U of T you need a year of humanities/social sciences, which many of the kin courses count as.

But my point was, as you point out, that life sci pretty much dictates that you take your med school requirements in year 1 or 2. This does not leave flexibility for those who are not looking to spend all day in a lab, or who are worried about making a transition to University the first year.

I wouldn't presume to know what was better for the OP, but I am willing to say that the advantage you purport for Life Science can also be a disadvantage. I acknowledge that its not quite as easy to complete all the requirements ASAP in the Kin program, especially when you have to catch up for not having physics or chem in high school, but only the OP can decide whether he wants to jam them in ASAP or spread them out a bit. If he wants to do the former, Life Sci might be better, but if he wants the later Kin might be better. If he just wants them done in time to write the MCAT the summer after the third year then it really doesn't matter.

Many of the pre-requisites for medicine are just time consuming. I do not know why you'd plan on spreading them out, especially if you plan on not only writing but doing well on the MCATs. Why not get the pre-reqs done in the first two years, this way, you have all the required knowledge to write the MCAT? If you spread the pre-reqs out, you might forget material and might have to re-learn things that are essential to the MCAT. Having completed most if not all the pre-reqs after second year in Life Sci allows you to write the MCAT after second year, and if you screw up, at least you'll have the summer after third year to re-write. If you are intended to get into medicine after 4th year, you will have to apply at the end of THIRD YEAR. Like you stated, if you space out your pre-reqs, it will be undoubtedly harder to write the MCAT early, especially if your missing pre-req courses that will help. You could probably write your MCATs during school, but it would be diffcult to juggle studying MCATs and focusing on your courses at the same time. I am just re-iterating that with Life Science, if your ultimate goal is medicine, that it would be a lot easier to fill in the pre-requisites.
Additionally, you make it seem like spending time in a lab during first year is such a bad thing, when really its probably invaluable experience that'll help you in the future. Most science based programs, whether or not its life science or kinesiology offer research projects, or thesis, especially for honors program. Being familiar in a lab setting is a reality that most undergraduates have to get used to. This is especially helpful if you want to work for a prof, because they rarely go into labs, themselves, and require people to do so. You'll be better with your hands in a lab with the more exposure you get.
I admit labs can be time consuming, but why not get rid of it as soon as possible? Why space it out and perhaps take a summer to finish the pre-requisite when you can complete it in the school year?
You mention the fact that the OP might not find the flexibilit with transitioning to first year. Tough muffins. Do you really think that the pre-reqs for med school are a lot difficult than other courses, say Kin coruses. These pre-req courses probably are probably the same level of difficulty as kin courses; however, you will be able to take electives, which may easy up your load considerably. If you had to take Kin courses as well as the pre-reqs, it might be a little more diffcult. Plus you'll have extra labs from the kinesiology anatomy labs (which are fun), but its just extra courses, and labs that don't really fill your pre-reqs.
While the Kinesiology and Life science programs are both great at McMaster, in your current situation, I would say that Life Sci is a better fit, especially your end game is Medical school. If you like the study of human movement, then go ahead and shoot for kin if it really floats your boat. But if you want to finish your pre-reqs early, and get them done in the first two years, to allow for greater diversity in electives in upper years, why wouldn't you? You wouldn't have to worry about filling silly requirements in upper years.

Originally Posted by jordan19

Many of the pre-requisites for medicine are just time consuming. I do not know why you'd plan on spreading them out, especially if you plan on not only writing but doing well on the MCATs. Why not get the pre-reqs done in the first two years, this way, you have all the required knowledge to write the MCAT? If you spread the pre-reqs out, you might forget material and might have to re-learn things that are essential to the MCAT. Having completed most if not all the pre-reqs after second year in Life Sci allows you to write the MCAT after second year, and if you screw up, at least you'll have the summer after third year to re-write. If you are intended to get into medicine after 4th year, you will have to apply at the end of THIRD YEAR. Like you stated, if you space out your pre-reqs, it will be undoubtedly harder to write the MCAT early, especially if your missing pre-req courses that will help. You could probably write your MCATs during school, but it would be diffcult to juggle studying MCATs and focusing on your courses at the same time. I am just re-iterating that with Life Science, if your ultimate goal is medicine, that it would be a lot easier to fill in the pre-requisites.

You don't need to write the MCAT after 2nd year. Write it very early during third year summer (i.e., some time around beginning of june) and make sure you're able to rewrite by the end of the summer if you screw up.

I don't think the forgetting factor is as important as you think it is. A much more important factor is how well you learnt in the first place and how well you studied for the MCAT which, from my understanding, tests very differently then your classes.

Additionally, you make it seem like spending time in a lab during first year is such a bad thing, when really its probably invaluable experience that'll help you in the future. Most science based programs, whether or not its life science or kinesiology offer research projects, or thesis, especially for honors program. Being familiar in a lab setting is a reality that most undergraduates have to get used to. This is especially helpful if you want to work for a prof, because they rarely go into labs, themselves, and require people to do so. You'll be better with your hands in a lab with the more exposure you get.

First off, research doesn't have to be lab based research. I'm not saying being familiar is not a good idea, but is it urgent that you have 3-4 lab courses each semester first year? I wouldn't be inclined to say so. All I had was Anatomy and Physiology, and Bio 1A03 as far as labs went and I already feel familiar to a certain extent in a lab setting. Chem 1A03 labs, for example. I felt fairly confident from the beginning despite never having done a chem lab since grade 10. If you're talking about certain techniques, then sure getting that particular course where they are taught done early is helpful, i.e., if you want to do Bio research then doing Bio 1A03 early is probably useful, but I'm not sure how a Physics lab would help.

I admit labs can be time consuming, but why not get rid of it as soon as possible? Why space it out and perhaps take a summer to finish the pre-requisite when you can complete it in the school year?

You mention the fact that the OP might not find the flexibilit with transitioning to first year. Tough muffins. Do you really think that the pre-reqs for med school are a lot difficult than other courses, say Kin coruses. These pre-req courses probably are probably the same level of difficulty as kin courses; however, you will be able to take electives, which may easy up your load considerably. If you had to take Kin courses as well as the pre-reqs, it might be a little more diffcult. Plus you'll have extra labs from the kinesiology anatomy labs (which are fun), but its just extra courses, and labs that don't really fill your pre-reqs.

Its not really so much difficulty, but busy work and labs occupying time. Lab notebook preparing, online quizes, safety quizes, assignments, being ready for the random iClicker questions in class etc. etc. It all adds up. I find kin courses to leave much more time out of class for actually studying and grasping the material than other sciences. University requires a lot more work outside of class than highschool does. Not everyone transitions well from 25 hours a week of class and 5 hours of hmwk, to 20-25 hours a week of class and 20-25 hours a week of hmwk. Having more time in classes, and doing busy work doesn't necessarily make the transition any easier.

While the Kinesiology and Life science programs are both great at McMaster, in your current situation, I would say that Life Sci is a better fit, especially your end game is Medical school. If you like the study of human movement, then go ahead and shoot for kin if it really floats your boat. But if you want to finish your pre-reqs early, and get them done in the first two years, to allow for greater diversity in electives in upper years, why wouldn't you? You wouldn't have to worry about filling silly requirements in upper years.

Here's where I kind of agree. They are both great and it depends on what you want. If you like human motion and human health kin is great. If you main concern is how do I get my prereqs done ASAP without any summer school, then Life Sci is probably for you. If you're in the middle, its a judgement call.

*A side note about electives. Not a whole lot of upper year kin courses are open to non-kin students or open to them in significant numbers. If you want to choose to take them, it might be better to take kin (it has a better selection of what you'd want to take), and you can still take most of the upper level sciences. On the flip side if you can't find many upper level kin courses that interest you, then Life Sci is probably right for you.

Originally Posted by Kyle 24

Hey guys, so basically I need some advice. I got accepted to both Life Science and Kinesiology at McMaster next year and I am really having trouble choosing which program to go into. My ultimate goal is to go to medical school after completing my undergrad BUT I also want a backup plan just in case it doesnt happen to work out or if I change my mind. I've been looking at both programs and it seems like kin has more options for me if i don't end up going into medical school but i also heard that life sci is better because it makes you take the required courses needed to get into med school. So which program do you think would be better considering what I've mentioned? Please let me know what you guys think, I could really use some help making this decision, thank you.
Kyle

I went in to Life Sci and I can say that Life Sci would probably give you a broader spectrum of job opportunities. If you want to go to med school you can take life Sci first year and then choose a major like Biochem or chembio for second year. Many of the courses you take in life Sci are more routed towards that. Whereas in kin, you would have to take courses that wouldn’t be necessary for med school, you’re more limited in kin. There is more freedom in life Sci. But it really depends on what you want to do and what you are interested in.

(you also get a Honours B.Sc Kin if you go into kin but in life sci you get an Honours B.Sc)

Hope that helps!

Originally Posted by SashDoods

I went in to Life Sci and I can say that Life Sci would probably give you a broader spectrum of job opportunities. If you want to go to med school you can take life Sci first year and then choose a major like Biochem or chembio for second year. Many of the courses you take in life Sci are more routed towards that. Whereas in kin, you would have to take courses that wouldn’t be necessary for med school, you’re more limited in kin. There is more freedom in life Sci. But it really depends on what you want to do and what you are interested in.

(you also get a Honours B.Sc Kin if you go into kin but in life sci you get an Honours B.Sc)

Hope that helps!

Again with the jobs.....

http://www.mcmaster.ca/avpira/OSAP/OSAP_2008.html

A quick look at the stats for both mac, and all graduates in various fields in ontario suggest that kin grads do VERY well at finding employment.

That and its very manageable to graduate Kin with two professional designations (Certified Kinesiologist and Certified Exercise Physiologist).