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Old 08-05-2009 at 03:03 PM   #31
kirchhoff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle View Post
It's a two way street. We wouldn't have classes without them, either. Some of the issues at hand are important to these people. You may only be at McMaster for four(ish) years, but some of these affected people work here for a lot longer than that.
Pretty sure the people pushing paper have absolutely nothing to do with my actual learning. Sure, things would take longer, but if professors and TAs are still here then everyone would still learn. Where as if we all went on strike to demand less tuition, all those people would be out of jobs indefinitely.

Quote:
If the admin wants to ask their workers to make sacrifices, perhaps they should be prepared to make some sacrifices of their own. Are they doing this?


Agreed, it's not fair that the workers are expected to make all the sacrifices.
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Last edited by kirchhoff : 08-05-2009 at 03:06 PM.
Old 08-05-2009 at 03:08 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirchhoff View Post
Pretty sure the people pushing paper have absolutely nothing to do with my actual learning. Sure, things would take longer, but if professors and TAs are still here then everyone would still learn. Where as if we all went on strike to demand less tuition, all those people would be out of jobs indefinitely.
Who do you think hires the TAs? Arranges their payroll? Facilitates office hours for those TAs?

I suppose I'm speaking specifically about my department, but I'm sure that there are common tasks among other departments.

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Old 08-05-2009 at 03:12 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirchhoff View Post
Pretty sure the people pushing paper have absolutely nothing to do with my actual learning. Sure, things would take longer, but if professors and TAs are still here then everyone would still learn. Where as if we all went on strike to demand less tuition, all those people would be out of jobs indefinitely.
I've mentioned this in another thread, but I'll do it again here. The secretaries and administrative assistants in departments make the university work. Pushing paper is a major part of what goes on at the university. Ask some profs. Most I've talked to LOVE the secretaries. The departmental chairs often know less about how the bureaucracy works than the secretaries do. The secretaries make sure profs know when certain forms have to be in, how to do common administrative tasks, etc. etc. etc.

For instance, find some profs who know:
1. How to get authorization for funds to pay a TA
2. How to submit, when to submit and who to submit final exams to for copying.
3. What forms are used to give a student a pre-req waiver to take a course.
4. Who to ask for a bigger classroom.

Etc, etc. etc. I'd say these things, and many others, play an important role in your learning experience.

Further, a less stressed, frazzled prof who isn't running around trying to figure this stuff out will probably be a bit more pleasant in the classroom.

Edit: Ninja'd by Michelle!

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Old 08-05-2009 at 03:17 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobble View Post

Edit: Ninja'd by Michelle!

Thanks for the backup.

The people in the administrative positions here really deserve more recognition than they get. The people in my department are fantastic and have really enhanced my experience both as a student as well as a TA.
Old 08-05-2009 at 03:18 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobble View Post

Etc, etc. etc. I'd say these things, and many others, play an important role in your learning experience.
True, things would be slower and less organized. The university has already said they would continue the term with or without said workers, so apparently they're not exactly vital to anyone's learning.
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Old 08-05-2009 at 03:21 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirchhoff View Post
True, things would be slower and less organized. The university has already said they would continue the term with or without said workers, so apparently they're not exactly vital to anyone's learning.
< /facepalm>
Old 08-05-2009 at 03:23 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirchhoff View Post
True, things would be slower and less organized. The university has already said they would continue the term with or without said workers, so apparently they're not exactly vital to anyone's learning.
There's a difference between having a learning experience and having a good learning experience. I imagine that at the beginning of any strike, things will go smoothly. However, as the strike drags on, things will start to fall apart.
Old 08-05-2009 at 03:30 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobble View Post
There's a difference between having a learning experience and having a good learning experience. I imagine that at the beginning of any strike, things will go smoothly. However, as the strike drags on, things will start to fall apart.
Agreed 100%. Our quality of learning would definitely detoriorate over time as things started getting backed up and we would end up paying a ton of money for a pretty bad education experience. This is why it's pretty selfish for the workers to propose a strike in the first place.
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Old 08-05-2009 at 03:40 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirchhoff View Post
Agreed 100%. Our quality of learning would definitely detoriorate over time as things started getting backed up and we would end up paying a ton of money for a pretty bad education experience. This is why it's pretty selfish for the administration to not take care of the people who work very hard for students in the first place.

Fixed!

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Old 08-05-2009 at 04:30 PM   #40
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Here's the problem students like is are Clients. Yes that is exactly what we are for the university admin. We pay a heck lot of fees to the university, they keep increasing it with impunity, there is absolutely NO REGARD for trying to gather student opinion on what they are doing. Burlington Campus, Capital Spending, BOG Salaries and Hires; there is absolutely no accountability!

The sooner all of use realize that we are just temporary statistics for the university that doles out cookie cutter degrees to most of us(bar the few who do serious significant research, mostly in the Health department). It doesn't really matter to them what our educational experience is like, I assume they do have positive interests in their minds for students being human beings. But to be honest, they are more concerned about the long term financial success of their personal careers. Remember the more money the University rakes in and more importantly has available, the better the official in charge looks to his higher ups. So he will cut costs in order to show a healthy green budget line irregardless of its consequences on random students.

The Admin has built up an impregnable fortress that allows it to do things how it likes to, some years ago the Sil used to report most of its pages criticizing and exposing the administration, these days the things have shifted towards blaming the MSU. Sure issues like Quarters etc are important but in the bigger picture, it is only a business that the union runs. We need to look at the educational aspect of everything in more detail as well! Because at the end of the day that is what we are here for!

It is very hard though to do something about the administrative decisions on your own but we need to spread the word, let people know how things are. We give $800 to the MSU but several thousand to the University, it has recently dawned on me that alot of things on that regard get ignored.

I think stuff like student affairs cutting budgets all over student services(even CSD for example has had budget cuts) is something we should complain about, the Health Services thread was a good start; I would urge people on it Adrian/Sabrina to actually go through and contact the admin or the MSU BOD regarding it.

I just took a look back at the sessional thread and it was wierd how people complained for some time then it just stopped dead in its track.

Being a quixotic person I am, I really think if we can't do anything ourselves; we should be contacting the MSU in person or via email about our opinions on administrative decisions! They might not be the most effective at running the business side of MSU, but they are arguably rather good at internal lobbying.

I was going through EB minutes yesterday and noticed that Chris Martin presented to the BOG regarding financial cuts(I think) and that they were appreciative of it; but stuff like that goes unnoticed!

Also the senators are a pretty underused resource and venue compared to the MSU's visibility but they also do have a HUGE responsibility given the fact that they have voting rights and speaking time on the senate. Though I'm not sure how much work gets done by the Senate and how effective they are!

If Jeff Green from the Sil is reading this, I think the Sil should spend a little more time attacking the admin this year as well!

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Last edited by huzaifa47 : 08-05-2009 at 04:53 PM. Reason: Spelling

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Old 08-05-2009 at 04:33 PM   #41
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I was just wondering what the SRA or MSUs plan of action is regarding the strike.
Old 08-05-2009 at 04:38 PM   #42
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I know that this is thread is about the potential of a support strike. But I was wondering what McMaster's plan is with regards to the H1N1 virus?
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Old 08-05-2009 at 04:38 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferreinm View Post
I was just wondering what the SRA or MSUs plan of action is regarding the strike.
I was actually at the MSU office today and according to Vishal he MSU is still working hard on gathering information before they have a stance one side or the other or neutral on this matter. Because as you can imagine a union strike is a VERY TRICKY issue given the fact that you can't really side with one party or the other or give out any information that can be inferred in a negative way by someone. It happened at York where it snowballed into an student outrage and a YFS Recall. But the official MSU policy apparently is(the policy is outdated on the website) to "be in the best interests of the students"; I'm not sure if that can be interpreted in a radical way. But I can understand why the MSU is staying well clear from commenting on something before they know what is exactly going on. Because from a personal point of view I wouldn't take anything on face value from neither the administration or the Workers Union, both sides have reason to be biased and mislead people!
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Old 08-05-2009 at 05:05 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirchhoff View Post
Pretty sure the people pushing paper have absolutely nothing to do with my actual learning. Sure, things would take longer, but if professors and TAs are still here then everyone would still learn. Where as if we all went on strike to demand less tuition, all those people would be out of jobs indefinitely.[/color][/color]
From the TA perspective, "Tuition-freezing" is a pretty important issue to discuss.

Don't get me wrong, I don't support a strike in any case. As I said in a previous thread, if they go on strike I will be out there, with an "I want to teach damnit" sign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle View Post
Who do you think hires the TAs? Arranges their payroll? Facilitates office hours for those TAs?

I suppose I'm speaking specifically about my department, but I'm sure that there are common tasks among other departments.
In Math, this is all done by the professors and secretaries...I don't think it's fair to blame either of them, or label either of them as 'paper pushers' and associate them with Mac's wreckless spending.
Old 08-05-2009 at 05:30 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nciggle View Post
I know that this is thread is about the potential of a support strike. But I was wondering what McMaster's plan is with regards to the H1N1 virus?
The H1N1 virus isn't that serious. Unless you're an at risk population (very old or very young, or otherwise have compromised health) you don't need to worry. That why the university and our health care system in general isn't pouring too many resources into dealing with the issue. It's less severe than the yearly flu, no need for alarm. I had H1N1, it was no big deal

Back on topic...

An interesting issue in regards to the strike. Say the non academic staff were to strike September 1, how would this affect Welcome Week?
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