Originally Posted by huzaifa47

Here's the problem students like is are Clients. Yes that is exactly what we are for the university admin.

Part of the problem is that students eagerly embrace this identity. I've heard far too many timesother students talking to profs about the fact that they paid for a service and they're entitled to x,y and z. Or that they've paid the money and can do whatever they feel like (ie. skip classes, watch movies on their laptops in class, etc).

I really think some students do this because they believe it gives them some agency or control over their experiences. But really, the client role is incredibly weak, especially in a situation where there's a ton of other "clients" willing to step in and take your place if you decide to take your "business" elsewhere.

The university LOVES that students view themselves as clients for all the reasons you listed. It allows the administration to conceptualize students as units that need to be processed more efficiently (ie. get you out as fast as possible with as little cost to the university as possible).

If you want to know how the admin (and the ministry of education more generally) views students, look up their usage of the term "Basic Income Unit."

Hint: It's what students are called in adminspeak. Charming

Originally Posted by .:callen:.

The H1N1 virus isn't that serious. Unless you're an at risk population (very old or very young, or otherwise have compromised health) you don't need to worry. That why the university and our health care system in general isn't pouring too many resources into dealing with the issue. It's less severe than the yearly flu, no need for alarm. I had H1N1, it was no big deal

Back on topic...

An interesting issue in regards to the strike. Say the non academic staff were to strike September 1, how would this affect Welcome Week?

Show must go on?

I'd still party it up.

Welcome frosh!

(and if we didn't have class, why not have frosh week every week???)

Forget where I read it, but this reminds me of an interesting comment someone made (I think in a letter to the editor?) about how unions are out of place now in the 21st century. They brought up how way-back-when it made sense to band together to push for safe working conditions, better pay, certain rights, etc. But unions are now looked upon in a more negative light. More often than not they are seen as greedy, and disruptive. Just look at the OC Transpo strike in Ottawa, the York strike, etc.

Then again, it could be the media that helps perpetuate this negative view, since they tend to focus on the "bad stuff".
It just makes me wonder if unions are as helpful as they are supposed to be.

Originally Posted by ARose

Forget where I read it, but this reminds me of an interesting comment someone made (I think in a letter to the editor?) about how unions are out of place now in the 21st century. They brought up how way-back-when it made sense to band together to push for safe working conditions, better pay, certain rights, etc. But unions are now looked upon in a more negative light. More often than not they are seen as greedy, and disruptive. Just look at the OC Transpo strike in Ottawa, the York strike, etc.

Then again, it could be the media that helps perpetuate this negative view, since they tend to focus on the "bad stuff".
It just makes me wonder if unions are as helpful as they are supposed to be.

Hey! That all can be discussed in this thread: http://www.macinsiders.com/showthread.php?t=2250 6&
And has been argued about in details over and over to a standstill, yes they have their pro's and con's but the fact of the matter is that they exist and will continue to exist. The issue at the moment is the looming Union strike, I feel there hasn't been enough beef about this on Insiders! Can we pleaaasee keep it on topic for this thread?

Whoa, I had no idea there was an entire thread on it! Thanks for the link!

Originally Posted by .:callen:.

The H1N1 virus isn't that serious. Unless you're an at risk population (very old or very young, or otherwise have compromised health) you don't need to worry. That why the university and our health care system in general isn't pouring too many resources into dealing with the issue. It's less severe than the yearly flu, no need for alarm. I had H1N1, it was no big deal

I know this isn't on topic for this thread, but I don't see it being worth starting a new thread at this point.

H1N1 isn't serious right now, but the at-risk population statistically for H1N1 is young, healthy people who otherwise wouldn't be worried about flu. Statistically many more people approximately our age, +/- 15 years have died compared to regular flu, and there is a lot of concern for the potential (but expected) second wave of H1N1 in the fall flu season.

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As for the MSU stance on strike, Huzaifa has it right... we're aiming to take a stance that is in the "best interests of the students". Much research needs to be done before an official stance on strike action will be taken on this particular case.

Originally Posted by Taunton

As for the MSU stance on strike, Huzaifa has it right... we're aiming to take a stance that is in the "best interests of the students". Much research needs to be done before an official stance on strike action will be taken on this particular case.

Which strike are people concerned about? There's talks about two right now and people keep switching back and forth. Is the MSU going to take a stance on both-- if there are two strikes or just the one that affects academics? I'm personally more concerned about CAW considering I'm in 4th year philosophy so I don't have TAs and all of my professors are tenured, oh yeah and because I work at Career Services.

Originally Posted by ferreinm

Which strike are people concerned about? There's talks about two right now and people keep switching back and forth. Is the MSU going to take a stance on both-- if there are two strikes or just the one that affects academics? I'm personally more concerned about CAW considering I'm in 4th year philosophy so I don't have TAs and all of my professors are tenured, oh yeah and because I work at Career Services.

All three groups are being analyzed and a stance would be developed for each individual situation, since they're all seperate entities.

I think students at large are more concerned about a TA/Post-Doc strike, but the potential CAW strike could play havoc around midterms and exam time (should it go that long).

I really think that fears of another York are why students are so worried, however I don't think the elements are in place for another York-like situation to happen here.

Originally Posted by Taunton

All three groups are being analyzed and a stance would be developed for each individual situation, since they're all seperate entities.

I think students at large are more concerned about a TA/Post-Doc strike, but the potential CAW strike could play havoc around midterms and exam time (should it go that long).

I really think that fears of another York are why students are so worried, however I don't think the elements are in place for another York-like situation to happen here.

Oh, I'm not even slightly concerned that Mac will be a York. My guess would be that everything is settled right before the first day of class. I can see why students are more concerned about the TA/Post-Doc strike though but it doesn't directly affect me personally -- anymore. Also, who is the third group?

Originally Posted by ferreinm

Also, who is the third group?

The three groups are:

Academic Staff (CAW)

TA's/RA's (CUPE Unit 3)

Post-Docs (CUPE Unit 5) <--------- They have agreed to a contract already

I know the groups are correct, but I may have the union unit numbers wrong, so if I do, someone please correct me.

Its Unit one for CAW 555 (Non Academic Staff)

Unit one for Cupe 3906 (TA/RA)

Unit three Cupe (Post Doc's)

Originally Posted by Taunton

The three groups are:

Academic Staff (CAW)

TA's/RA's (CUPE Unit 3)

Post-Docs (CUPE Unit 5) <--------- They have agreed to a contract already

I know the groups are correct, but I may have the union unit numbers wrong, so if I do, someone please correct me.

The T.As/R.As are CUPE Unit 1
The Post-Docs are CUPE Unit 3

Speaking to a few CAW members they seem to think a strike is highly likely. The strike vote will be happening again and it will most likely pass once they get quorum. The union is not budging on the pension issue (for good reason)

Before opening this thread, I presumed that this thread would be about quarterlife crisis or something. I've never been so wrong!

Originally Posted by Taunton

I really think this would be awesome, and I would be 100% for this! If there is a strike, we definitely should work together to teach each other and help each other out!

I wish I could put "thanks" on this more than once!

You know what, I think someone(I'm willing to do it if enough people are interested) should start an academic group devoted to gathering as much knowledge as possible on subjects of interest. Kind of like an "open university" inside the university.