http://www.saultstar.com/2013/02/12/...ity-tories-say

Thoughts? Do you think the proposed changes are beneficial? Do they even have a chance of actually being implemented?

I thought grades already played a role in fin aid....???
But, if not, I'm all for it!!!! :.)

whats dumb is not being able to currently get the tuition credit if you have been out of high school longer than 4 years, god forbid you don't go to university or college right away and want to figure out exactly what you want to do before you spend 6 grand a year. Credit should be open to whoever financially qualifies with maybe a gpa quota

Grades play a role in some bursaries and in scholarships, but government financial aid has absolutely nothing to do with your grades.

I agree, the four-year rule is stupid. Also, that it needs to be a direct-entry program. So a lot of professional programs that cost ~$20000/yr are excluded from getting a grant that people paying $6000/yr get. It's not like there's an equivalent grant for those programs...those students end up getting loans from the bank.

Encouraging students to get good grades for financial aid is theoretically beneficial (so students won't sacrifice their grades to work 2-3 jobs), but really this is just setting it up so that students who need to work to go to school aren't going to qualify whereas people who chose to be less inclined to stay out of debt will receive funding.

I agree with encouraging students to go college/skilled trades programs. University isn't for everyone.

Things that should be changed:
1. Having less OSAP clawbacks for people who are trying to reduce their debt load by working. It rewards people who are don't try to keep themselves out of debt.
2. Also, using parental income as proof that students are not worthy of financial aid should be changed. Many parents don't financially support their children's university degree.

So a lot of professional programs that cost ~$20000/yr are excluded from getting a grant that people paying $6000/yr get. It's not like there's an equivalent grant for those programs...those students end up getting loans from the bank.

Tbh, we're considered independent students so parental income isn't part of the equation. Most of us don't bother working, so we get a ton of OSAP funding and we only need to pay the maximum cut off of $7300/year (the rest is a grant). We also get a ton of bursaries and access to low-interest loans. It's a lot easier for us than for undergraduate students, so I'm not complaining from my end.

Originally Posted by Lois

Tbh, we're considered independent students so parental income isn't part of the equation. Most of us don't bother working, so we get a ton of OSAP funding and we only need to pay the maximum cut off of $7300/year (the rest is a grant). We also get a ton of bursaries and access to low-interest loans. It's a lot easier for us than for undergraduate students, so I'm not complaining from my end.

My mistake was clearly that I worked

I am an independent student (although not all students in these programs are), but I didn't get the maximum OSAP loan, which I would have if I hadn't worked, and the grant wasn't much...not even as much as the 30% off thing is. And yeah...no bursaries either. I applied, but most of the ones available to people in my program had really specific characteristics (must be chinese, must have gone to high school in niagara falls, etc).

I definitely agree that the system needs to be changed so you're not punishing students for working. When I did the estimate to compare how much I would have got if I hadn't worked, a good chunk of the extra money would have been grants. So it was either work for my money, or don't work and get handed about the same amount of government money.

Edit: My tuition was over $16000.

I see this as being a potential barrier for students who don't necessarily have an 80 or 90 percent average but still work hard and enjoy learning at school and participate actively in the school community.

Potentially, this will lead to a lot more drop outs, because students who depended on OSAP and didn't have great marks will be forced to take on extra jobs which will decrease their marks further and potentially lead them to fail out of school.

In other countries, post-secondary education is free. Why are we moving backwards instead of forwards? The more roadblocks you put on access to education, the more people you are leaving out of the loop.

Also, I've heard plenty of stories from professors who said that they didn't do well at first in university, and as the article points out, there were innovators in history who didn't excel grades-wise but later went on to accomplish great things.

Also, how do they plan to account for difficulty level at different universities? or even across programs?

Starfish, the current system doesn't really account for people who actually work. It's kind of unfortunate. My tuition was something like ~18000ish, I got ~20000 in OSAP funding and I only need to pay back approximately $10500. I think the school I'm at right now is just a bit more generous with bursaries (the fact that I make a whopping $0 helps). Not that I actually have the time to work at the moment :p

tuition will not be free in canada ever. 1 reason would be to look at countries where there is free tuition; most are in Europe where a bunch of those economies are among those at the brink of default due to deficits and overspending. does tuition need to come down? yes- universities waste a ton of money every year, so if they were getting less revenue from tuition, perhaps they could become more efficient. Unless schools are willing to spend money on staff and infrastructure then adding more people to post secondary institutions will only lead to overcrowding and decreased value of education- its already happening- look at the last couple of msu elections. what has been the main issue? Not enough space... to study, to sit and eat, in residence etc... so its irresponsible to promote more access without creating the infrastructure to hold everyone

Tim Hudak is brainless. Take this with a grain of salt unless in the unfortunate event that he is actually elected. I'm in economics, and any time his name comes up as a topic, we laugh because we know his policies are a joke. If you read between the lines he is essentially blaming students for the high unemployment levels for post-secondary grads since people are choosing university over colleges and skilled trades. He pretty much wants to punish students for making that very decision.

As we can see, smoking pot in your early years clearly is not good for brain cells (i'm not making things up he admitted to it).

Thank God,
Hudak ain't premier. This explains why he lost the election. McGuinty has made some mistakes but at least he is better than Hudak. Dalton McGuinty (McMaster Alum) > Tim Hudak (Western Alum)

To all of you, who say that you're all for this... Take a difficult major like engineering or physics and we'll see how quickly you perception will change...
I was in engineering and my average was a 6, I am in life science now and my marks are 11s and 12s.

The major you're in has a huge impact on your marks.

Originally Posted by person33

whats dumb is not being able to currently get the tuition credit if you have been out of high school longer than 4 years, god forbid you don't go to university or college right away and want to figure out exactly what you want to do before you spend 6 grand a year. Credit should be open to whoever financially qualifies with maybe a gpa quota

uhhh what

I've been out of highschool for more than 4 years. I qualify for an estimated 17,000 CAD according to their site

Of course these changes would occur when we graduate.

Originally Posted by ZSimon

uhhh what

I've been out of highschool for more than 4 years. I qualify for an estimated 17,000 CAD according to their site

Simon, he's talking about the 30% tuition grant which is only available for those who have NOT been out of HS for more than four years.. Everyone who is out of high school for four years gets $15,000-$17,000 because they are then considered 'independent' and parental salary no longer applies.