Originally Posted by micadjems

There's a lot of group work in every other faculty as well though, its not just health sci. Engineering has tons of group lab work, and I've done at least one group project in almost every theatre and film class I've had...

However, the majority of the keystone courses in the BHSc program utilizes group work for the entire term's worth of work instead of just for a couple of assignments.

I'm not devaluing your experience, however, there's a distinguishable pedagogical difference.

I don't really understand your point - is it that it's harder to get good marks when you depend on others?

I also enjoy large words

Originally Posted by micadjems

I don't really understand your point - is it that it's harder to get good marks when you depend on others?

I also enjoy large words

I am not in second year yet but hearing from second years, in inquiry you are put into a group of 10 to do a project. You meet with your facilitator once a month to update him/her on the progress and at the end of the term there is a presentation. 2 of the 10 people are picked at random to do the presentation on the day of and the mark of the entire group is determined from that. This makes sure that everyone in the group knows what the presentation is about, so no one can just cruise by by just having a good group.

Originally Posted by micadjems

There's a lot of group work in every other faculty as well though, its not just health sci. Engineering has tons of group lab work, and I've done at least one group project in almost every theatre and film class I've had...

of course every faculty has group work, I dont know what engineering group labs are like but do you really spend 3+ hours each week meeting with them outside of the course? Because that's what my group is doing right now for first year inquiry, which was suppose to be a bird course (but I maybe an exception because my facilitator is really research oriented).

I really dont think first year health sci is as easy as everyone is making it sound. sure our schedules are easy but when you put in the group meeting times for 2 or 3 courses each week time quickly gets eaten up. It is not fair for people who actually worked hard to have their achievement belittled by others. But more importantly, it is also not fair to first year health scis who are struggling to adjust to this type of learning style. They just get pressured and discouraged by all the comments suggesting that since they are in health sci, they should be getting all 12s.

Steps2Health has been banned due to frequent breaking of MacInsider's Terms of Service after multiple warnings. Please keep this thread on topic to do with the Provost's Honours List and/or the article found in the Daily News or your post will be removed for being off-topic. You're always welcome to start a new thread on new topics.

Thanks everyone for sharing your opinions thus far, there's been some great discussion. Once we find out the full list of winners we'll be sure to post them. If anyone finds the list, please post it here! It would be interesting to see the breakdown by faculty of winners.

The complete list of Provost's Honour Roll winners for 2007-2008 can be found on page 40 of the Undergraduate Council Awards Committee's report.

http://www.mcmaster.ca/univsec/mtgdo..._UGC_MTG. pdf

Originally Posted by elagueesti

The complete list of Provost's Honour Roll winners for 2007-2008 can be found on page 40 of the Undergraduate Council Awards Committee's report.

http://www.mcmaster.ca/univsec/mtgdocs/ugc/2008_(12)dec_UGC_MTG. pdf

bhahahahaha
36 out of 53 hth sci
7 sci, 7 eng, 1 humanities, 1 social sciences, 36 hth sci.


Let me clarify a few things:
***No one is saying that hth sci's do no work and they are just given free marks while hanging out in their lounge playing pool and watching TV.

***No one is saying they all get 12's.

***What we are saying is that their marks are inflated.

As I mentioned before, the normal range of averages for non hth sci courses is 65-75.

What is the range for hth sci courses?
My guess would be 75-85.
There are several hth sci posters, can any of you confirm or deny this?

c. nardo wrote that 3rd yr immuno is not a bird course.
I took that course in fall 07. It was a bird course, and it probably still is.
The averages for the midterms were both 80.
The class average in fall 06 (the year before I took it) was 80.
The course required much less work than all of my other courses. It is one of the easiest courses at mac.
We all have opinions about the difficulty of a course. Some have group work, some have a lot of memorization. But what's more important imo are averages, grade distributions, etc. They are fairly free from bias.

So again,
1 - hth sci marks are inflated.
2 - what are the averages for midterms in your hth sci classes? there are several hth sci posters in this thread, can any of you give some averages?


Instead you hth sci guys write long posts about how much work you do. This is both subjective and assumes that everyone else who is not in hth sci does much less work than you.
Oh, you have several group meetings a week, multiple readings? That explains so much, you deserve your inflated grades, because I just sit around all day and do much less work than you right? (/sarcasm)

Originally Posted by FireDragoonX

So again,
1 - hth sci marks are inflated.
2 - what are the averages for midterms in your hth sci classes? there are several hth sci posters in this thread, can any of you give some averages?

You seem to know a lot about health sci averages, why don't you give them?

Originally Posted by FireDragoonX

Instead you hth sci guys write long posts about how much work you do. This is both subjective and assumes that everyone else who is not in hth sci does much less work than you.

How are we assuming that at all? Give the forum a break dude, stop trying to paint us all as douches who think all other faculties don't do work. It seems like you have some unresolved grudge you've manufactured in your mind.

You're the one assuming that we do less work, not the other way around!

Originally Posted by FireDragoonX

Oh, you have several group meetings a week, multiple readings? That explains so much, you deserve your inflated grades, because I just sit around all day and do much less work than you right? (/sarcasm)

Nobody has been saying you don't do work. You're the one putting those words in our mouths. It's like you're arguing with yourself.

Your posts are a joke.

C'mon macinsiders team, why don't you delete this guy's posts? They're worse than steps2health's .


Free steps2health!
Ban FireDragoonX!

(/sarcasm)
(/not really sarcasm)

And now you're the tool.

He's trying to contribute to the argument. Steps2Health never was. I hope you can see this is the reason.

I would like to point out he estimated your averages were higher because of the inflation we have all heard and seen about. I, too, think it's quite odd no health sci student has posted a grade yet. Anyone care to give an average?

I would find it quite interesting.

Originally Posted by micadjems

And now you're the tool.

He's trying to contribute to the argument. Steps2Health never was. I hope you can see this is the reason.

I would like to point out he estimated your averages were higher because of the inflation we have all heard and seen about. I, too, think it's quite odd no health sci student has posted a grade yet. Anyone care to give an average?

I would find it quite interesting.

Contribute what?

This isn't an argument. This is a majority (or close to it) of posters using what are basically rumours and hearsay to badmouth a faculty.

What's he contributing? If we can take that last post as a good example of his previous ones (I think we can cause it's basically a summary of his posts), he's doing nothing but making assumptions or broad generalizations and trying to pass them off as an argument.

Just cause you might agree with him, doesn't mean his posts are valid.

His posts contribute just as much as steps2health's did, except he dressed his up a bit more so they were acceptable. If you read into them, they're just as antagonistic.

It's analogous to the talking head "pundits" spewing crap on television and passing it off as actual discourse.


And by the way, I don't actually care about "freeing" steps2health, that's kind of a joke if y'all didn't catch that.

Originally Posted by samtheman89

You seem to know a lot about health sci averages, why don't you give them?

I stopped reading here.
Did you even read my post?

Edit, to clarify:
I ask, "what are hth sci averages?"
you respond: "you seem to know a lot about health sci averages, why don't you give them?"
Do you not see how ignorant you are? This is the 2nd time you've responded like that.
It's like, you don't even know what a question is. You don't respond to a question with an illogical question.
Furthermore, you don't even seem to know how to read properly. I've written above the average for a hth sci course I have taken. It was 80 for both the year I took it in, and the year before.

Please, do not respond to any of my posts.

Your wish is my command.


Aw shucks. *reluctantly kicks dust around with hands in pockets*

Originally Posted by samtheman89

You're the one assuming that we do less work, not the other way around!


Nobody has been saying you don't do work. You're the one putting those words in our mouths. It's like you're arguing with yourself.

There were posts about how we should just 'work harder' or something to that degree. :|

I agree that someone (perhaps a hth sci) should just post a few averages so as to "pacify" our "unfounded" claims/rumours. I think a good amount of posters in this topic (who aren't in health sci) are honestly curious as to whether or not the rumours were true.

Of course, you've got your demi-trolls who simply like to stray conversation away from the topic at hand and stir up controversy, but I think there are many who are serious about this topic and would perhaps love for someone to shed some light.

Part of being in university is to improve the quality of education for ALL, and this conversation could really contribute to that, so if anybody could just please provide some constructive information instead of just going on the defense, that would be great!

Originally Posted by FireDragoonX

So again,
1 - hth sci marks are inflated.
2 - what are the averages for midterms in your hth sci classes? there are several hth sci posters in this thread, can any of you give some averages?

So far the faculty has not told us the average of any midterm. But could you explain why a higher midterm average in a health sci course automatically mean our marks are inflated? could not not be attributed to the fact that the cut off for health sci is 90 and very few get in without a 94%+ average?

If you look at the GPA of everyone who had a 94%+ average in grade 12 who are in mac eng or science etc, would it not be higher than the average GPA of the entire faculty?

Originally Posted by FireDragoonX

Instead you hth sci guys write long posts about how much work you do. This is both subjective and assumes that everyone else who is not in hth sci does much less work than you.
Oh, you have several group meetings a week, multiple readings? That explains so much, you deserve your inflated grades, because I just sit around all day and do much less work than you right? (/sarcasm)

stop putting words in my mouth. people posted here saying that health scis does no work so I gave an example of the type of work we do. I was explaining that the work you do in health sci is mostly group work so our number of hours of class does not reflect how much time we really spend on our courses. Its different work, not nessesarily more. If we are to have a informative and constructive conversation to resolve this hate between faculties, you should stop attacking the strawman argument that you yourself set up. Because it's just adding fuel to the fire.

Really? I would be so frustrated if I didn't know averages... I like to know where my mark is on the curve and if I have to work harder next time...

I just wonder why this kind of honour even exists when it seems so routine for health scis, that's all.