Originally Posted by sew12

According to some of the CUPE literature they're not fighting for lower tuition costs since that's not really their area (but I'm sure they would appreciate it) but they're saying that the University keeps increasing tuition costs and last year specifically they increased it by the maximum legal amount (4% for Undergrads, 8% for Graduates) but this money isn't being used to help the TAs in any way which would fall under bettering education which is alledgedly what the University is trying to do by asking for more money to fund education. (Long run on sentence, I know).

The package the TAs/RAs union CUPE is asking for is apparently only a very small percentage of this additional money the University collected this year by increasing tuition, and presumably they will increase tuition again next year and still no money will go towards the TAs.

That is what the claim is but I'm sure if tuition had frozen or decreased they'd be just as happy with that.

As far as I can tell though the biggest issues aren't pay increases (though they are asking for one for Undergrad TAs) but more the TAs want to be compensated for more hours because right now they are only compensated for 260 hours a year and they feel they work more than that.

Ah ok. Well I mean I see their point. They probably DO work more than 260 hours per year. There's a very simple way to get paid for 520 or even 780 hours per year: have a minimum wage salary. I'm sure the university would be more than happy to pay them that.

As was said before, being paid over $35 per hour which is over three times minimum wage and whining that you don't get paid enough is a slap in the face to all of us who are getting by on minimum wage. Being a TA is not a career, it's a job. You can't make do with one job? Guess you'll have to get another one won't you?

Originally Posted by Kathy2

I don't think anyone with like 2 or 3 years of university education (or even someone who just graduated a 4 year program) deserves that kind of money.

I agree.

My mom actually works for mac, in management. They can't be unionized, since they're management, and so every time the unions demand more money, the management people loose wages and benefits. Right now the TAs are making more an hour than she does, and she's worked for Mac for over 20 years, first as an independent contractor, and then as an employee, and has a four-year degree in English with top honours. So I have no time for these people demanding more money when I don't think they've done anything to earn it.

Originally Posted by DannyV

Ah ok. Well I mean I see their point. They probably DO work more than 260 hours per year. There's a very simple way to get paid for 520 or even 780 hours per year: have a minimum wage salary. I'm sure the university would be more than happy to pay them that.

As was said before, being paid over $35 per hour which is over three times minimum wage and whining that you don't get paid enough is a slap in the face to all of us who are getting by on minimum wage. Being a TA is not a career, it's a job. You can't make do with one job? Guess you'll have to get another one won't you?

To be fair they deserve more than minimum wage for what they do. I get paid minimum wage to stand on the sidewalk and wave a sign and cut up pizzas (I work at Little Caesars). TAs do A LOT more than some minimum wage slacker job.

Also the ones getting paid $35 an hour are Graduate TAs, they've done 4 years of Undergrad and paid dues already and in theory have a lot of knowledge to offer students currently doing their degrees in their area of expertise.

Saying its a slap in the face to say you don't get paid enough doesn't even make sense? Who is it a slap in the face to? They applied for TA positions and were deemed qualified enough to teach students, help them with questions/papers/projects, mark etc. Why don't they deserve to be adequately compensated for the hours they work?

If I work at X and make $15 an hour and work 200 hours but only get paid for 100 that's unfair and if I ask to be compensated for more hours overall I shouldn't get told "well if we bump you down to minimum wage we'll compensate you for more hours."

Seriously, some people are being ridiculous saying the TAs are paid too much and don't deserve more, especially when the TAs being paid the highest amount aren't asking for an extravagant wage increase, just a small increase in the amount of hours they compensated for. They do all their own school work and on top of that take the time out to prepare lessons/discussion questions etc to help other students learn, hold office hours to provide additional help to students, mark papers etc.

I'd love to see some of the people moaning about how much TAs make get in Graduate school and take on a position TAing an undergraduate course, not get compensated for the amount of hours you actually work and then tell me how you get paid too much money to do it.

Originally Posted by sew12

According to some of the CUPE literature they're not fighting for lower tuition costs since that's not really their area (but I'm sure they would appreciate it) but they're saying that the University keeps increasing tuition costs and last year specifically they increased it by the maximum legal amount (4% for Undergrads, 8% for Graduates) but this money isn't being used to help the TAs in any way which would fall under bettering education which is alledgedly what the University is trying to do by asking for more money to fund education. (Long run on sentence, I know).

The package the TAs/RAs union CUPE is asking for is apparently only a very small percentage of this additional money the University collected this year by increasing tuition, and presumably they will increase tuition again next year and still no money will go towards the TAs.

That is what the claim is but I'm sure if tuition had frozen or decreased they'd be just as happy with that.

As far as I can tell though the biggest issues aren't pay increases (though they are asking for one for Undergrad TAs) but more the TAs want to be compensated for more hours because right now they are only compensated for 260 hours a year and they feel they work more than that.

Our union strongly believes in an accessible education system. We'd love to be able to negotiate tuition to ideally prevent, but at least reduce, increases. The problem is the bargaining team is barred (by the employer) from actually directly negotiating this, so instead we're attempting to get a financial assistance stipend for our members that is the equivalent amount of the increase in tuition. We certainly support and encourage groups on campus trying to stop tuition hikes and a lot of members actively support and join those groups.

Originally Posted by Maegs

I agree.

My mom actually works for mac, in management. They can't be unionized, since they're management, and so every time the unions demand more money, the management people loose wages and benefits. Right now the TAs are making more an hour than she does, and she's worked for Mac for over 20 years, first as an independent contractor, and then as an employee, and has a four-year degree in English with top honours. So I have no time for these people demanding more money when I don't think they've done anything to earn it.

The management group could still organize as an association and they would have a huge amount of power. Certainly they're highly underpaid, overworked and treated generally like crap. That's not the CAW member's fault though, its the fault of the administration would needs to prioritize their most valuable assets, employees, over things like landscaping.

Originally Posted by dsahota

The management group could still organize as an association and they would have a huge amount of power. Certainly they're highly underpaid, overworked and treated generally like crap. That's not the CAW member's fault though, its the fault of the administration would needs to prioritize their most valuable assets, employees, over things like landscaping.

Oh god, spare us your propaganda.

Originally Posted by dsahota

The management group could still organize as an association and they would have a huge amount of power. Certainly they're highly underpaid, overworked and treated generally like crap. That's not the CAW member's fault though, its the fault of the administration would needs to prioritize their most valuable assets, employees, over things like landscaping.

Shouldn't you be bargaining right now?

Originally Posted by sew12

To be fair they deserve more than minimum wage for what they do. I get paid minimum wage to stand on the sidewalk and wave a sign and cut up pizzas (I work at Little Caesars). TAs do A LOT more than some minimum wage slacker job.

Also the ones getting paid $35 an hour are Graduate TAs, they've done 4 years of Undergrad and paid dues already and in theory have a lot of knowledge to offer students currently doing their degrees in their area of expertise.

Saying its a slap in the face to say you don't get paid enough doesn't even make sense? Who is it a slap in the face to? They applied for TA positions and were deemed qualified enough to teach students, help them with questions/papers/projects, mark etc. Why don't they deserve to be adequately compensated for the hours they work?

If I work at X and make $15 an hour and work 200 hours but only get paid for 100 that's unfair and if I ask to be compensated for more hours overall I shouldn't get told "well if we bump you down to minimum wage we'll compensate you for more hours."

Seriously, some people are being ridiculous saying the TAs are paid too much and don't deserve more, especially when the TAs being paid the highest amount aren't asking for an extravagant wage increase, just a small increase in the amount of hours they compensated for. They do all their own school work and on top of that take the time out to prepare lessons/discussion questions etc to help other students learn, hold office hours to provide additional help to students, mark papers etc.

I'd love to see some of the people moaning about how much TAs make get in Graduate school and take on a position TAing an undergraduate course, not get compensated for the amount of hours you actually work and then tell me how you get paid too much money to do it.

Look, I'm not going to argue with you. In your opinion, getting paid $35/h for sitting on your butt and marking or coming to a tutorial and copying the prof's notes on the board is acceptable. In my opinion and experience, getting paid $35/h bucks for that is way too much.

As for the point that they have to do their own work on top of their job...yeah, they're students.

Originally Posted by Taunton

Shouldn't you be bargaining right now?

I'd love to be, but the University Administration still hasn't come to the table yet. We sent them a list of agreed items and are still waiting on their response on the significant monetary package we tabled last week.

I'd love to be bargaining, but I might as well answer questions if the Administration isn't coming to the table.

Originally Posted by Kathy2

I agree. I hope someone does this. If I walk by and I see someone yelling random Welcome Week cheers or something, I'll join in too.

MACINSIDERS GET TOGETHER!!!!



Can we all wear really bright colours so people pay attention to *us*?

Originally Posted by DannyV

Look, I'm not going to argue with you. In your opinion, getting paid $35/h for sitting on your butt and marking or coming to a tutorial and copying the prof's notes on the board is acceptable. In my opinion and experience, getting paid $35/h bucks for that is way too much.

You must have had some really bad experiences with your TAs.

Copying the profs notes on the board?

This is where it becomes hard. Obviously people from different disciplines have different experiences with what their TAs actually do and generalize that and apply it to all TAs, myself included. I see many of my TAs as doing a lot more than sitting on their asses and copying the profs notes.

Originally Posted by sew12

You must have had some really bad experiences with your TAs.

Copying the profs notes on the board?

This is where it becomes hard. Obviously people from different disciplines have different experiences with what their TAs actually do and generalize that and apply it to all TAs, myself included. I see many of my TAs as doing a lot more than sitting on their asses and copying the profs notes.

Some good TAs, Some bad TAs > No TAs

Originally Posted by micadjems

Some good TAs, Some bad TAs > No TAs

Agreed.

I've come across only one or two I really didn't care for and it wasn't that they were necessarily "bad" TAs, I just didn't care for their style in most cases. I had one I thought was a piss poor TA but 1 out of one for almost every class I had in first and second year isn't bad.

Originally Posted by sew12

You must have had some really bad experiences with your TAs.

Copying the profs notes on the board?

This is where it becomes hard. Obviously people from different disciplines have different experiences with what their TAs actually do and generalize that and apply it to all TAs, myself included. I see many of my TAs as doing a lot more than sitting on their asses and copying the profs notes.

I think the duties of TAs are seriously inflated sometimes. My boyfriend is a TA and I see exactly what he does. It's a decent amount of work on his part, that's for sure, but it's nothing he can't handle. Even he doesn't think he deserves the money he gets (he's an undergrad TA). He tells me all the time that he would easily do the same job for a signifigantly smaller pay.

Originally Posted by Kathy2

I think the duties of TAs are seriously inflated sometimes. My boyfriend is a TA and I see exactly what he does. It's a decent amount of work on his part, that's for sure, but it's nothing he can't handle. Even he doesn't think he deserves the money he gets (he's an undergrad TA). He tells me all the time that he would easily do the same job for a signifigantly smaller pay.

Again, your boyfriend is a TA for one course in one faculty in one program of the entire University. Just because he doesn't do much doesn't mean other TAs don't do a lot more.