Originally Posted by sew12

To be fair they deserve more than minimum wage for what they do. I get paid minimum wage to stand on the sidewalk and wave a sign and cut up pizzas (I work at Little Caesars). TAs do A LOT more than some minimum wage slacker job.

Also the ones getting paid $35 an hour are Graduate TAs, they've done 4 years of Undergrad and paid dues already and in theory have a lot of knowledge to offer students currently doing their degrees in their area of expertise.

Saying its a slap in the face to say you don't get paid enough doesn't even make sense? Who is it a slap in the face to? They applied for TA positions and were deemed qualified enough to teach students, help them with questions/papers/projects, mark etc. Why don't they deserve to be adequately compensated for the hours they work?

If I work at X and make $15 an hour and work 200 hours but only get paid for 100 that's unfair and if I ask to be compensated for more hours overall I shouldn't get told "well if we bump you down to minimum wage we'll compensate you for more hours."

Seriously, some people are being ridiculous saying the TAs are paid too much and don't deserve more, especially when the TAs being paid the highest amount aren't asking for an extravagant wage increase, just a small increase in the amount of hours they compensated for. They do all their own school work and on top of that take the time out to prepare lessons/discussion questions etc to help other students learn, hold office hours to provide additional help to students, mark papers etc.

I'd love to see some of the people moaning about how much TAs make get in Graduate school and take on a position TAing an undergraduate course, not get compensated for the amount of hours you actually work and then tell me how you get paid too much money to do it.

Aa graduate TA makes $40 an hour. Even if they work DOUBLE the hours that they can paid for (which I'm sure they don't), they technically make $20 an hour. That's a hell of a lot of money, and I would not be complaining.

Same goes for undergrad TAs. I would be a TA for minimum wage! If an undergrad TA works double the hours that they get paid for (which, again, I'm sure it's not that much), then they technically make $10 an hour. I wouldn't be complaining about that either.

And the thing is, I really doubt every single TA is working more hours than they are paid for. I obviously don't have the exact numbers so I can't say one way or another, but it's probably a small percantage of TAs that work more hours than they are paid for. So why should all TAs get pay increases, for the small percent that actually "deserve" it? That's not fair.

Originally Posted by sew12

Again, your boyfriend is a TA for one course in one faculty in one program of the entire University. Just because he doesn't do much doesn't mean other TAs don't do a lot more.

That argument could be used the other way though... just because some TA's do more work than others, it doesn't mean that they all deserve more money.

I agree with the point that TA'ing is just a job... it's not a career or a profession. They should be salaried and paid an equivalency to about $12-$15 per hour, and no more. This would solve the problem of not being paid for all of your hours, and the pay would be more than reasonable.

If they can't support themselves on that kind of money, then just like the rest of us, they can get another job.

Originally Posted by Maegs

I agree.

My mom actually works for mac, in management. They can't be unionized, since they're management, and so every time the unions demand more money, the management people loose wages and benefits. Right now the TAs are making more an hour than she does, and she's worked for Mac for over 20 years, first as an independent contractor, and then as an employee, and has a four-year degree in English with top honours. So I have no time for these people demanding more money when I don't think they've done anything to earn it.

My dad is in a similar situation. He went to 2 years of college and has worked at the same company for 25 years. Just within the last 2 years, he got a raise and he now makes $40 an hour.

2 years of college and 25 years of experience is the same as 3 or 4 years of university? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by sew12

Again, your boyfriend is a TA for one course in one faculty in one program of the entire University. Just because he doesn't do much doesn't mean other TAs don't do a lot more.

We don't all have the experiences you've had with your TAs. Your TAs have obviously had a very positive impact on your education. Those are just a handful of TAs in a few (maybe) faculties. Just because they do so much doesn't mean the others do as well.

EDIT: Taunton you beat me to it.

Originally Posted by micadjems

MACINSIDERS GET TOGETHER!!!!



Can we all wear really bright colours so people pay attention to *us*?

How about red tshirts? I'll wear one!

Originally Posted by Taunton

That argument could be used the other way though... just because some TA's do more work than others, it doesn't mean that they all deserve more money.

I agree with the point that TA'ing is just a job... it's not a career or a profession. They should be salaried and paid an equivalency to about $12-$15 per hour, and no more. This would solve the problem of not being paid for all of your hours, and the pay would be more than reasonable.

If they can't support themselves on that kind of money, then just like the rest of us, they can get another job.

Thanks. That took the words right out of my mouth (or fingertips?)

My boyfriend is an Engineering TA. He says that all his friends who are TAs do the same amount of work as him. It's not that they are slackers - it simply isn't as much work as some people are making it out to be.

I'm in Political Science. For the last 4 years, I've seen the amount of work that goes into TAing a Political Science tutorial. It's not worth that kind of money and they don't work that many hours.

About the getting another job thing - I believe that graduate TAs aren't allowed to. I could be wrong on that.

I really just can't wait for this to be over so the constant attacks on TAs will be over. It's grating on me at this point and I'm tired of hearing it.

Originally Posted by michelle

About the getting another job thing - I believe that graduate TAs aren't allowed to. I could be wrong on that.

I really just can't wait for this to be over so the constant attacks on TAs will be over. It's grating on me at this point and I'm tired of hearing it.

People are expressing their opinions of the TAs they've had. If there seems to be a common theme, well... I dunno. You're free to draw your own conclusions.

Originally Posted by michelle

About the getting another job thing - I believe that graduate TAs aren't allowed to. I could be wrong on that.

I really just can't wait for this to be over so the constant attacks on TAs will be over. It's grating on me at this point and I'm tired of hearing it.

I think you're misreading some things..

There are been several posts on this thread (and on this entire site), where people say they have had great experiences with TAs and that they don't hate all TAs. We're allowed to give our opinions, and since we pay money to attend McMaster, we have a right to say whether or not we think certain jobs at the school deserve certain salaries.

Honestly, and I'm not saying this to be rude, but if you're tired of hearing it, why do you read these threads? If it bothers you so much, it'd be easier to just not read it.

And about getting another job: I'm pretty sure graduate TAs aren't allowed to get another job on campus. I currently work at McMaster as an assistant and the same rule applies to me. When I get strapped for cash, I get another job OFF campus. TAs can do the same.

Originally Posted by Kathy2

Honestly, and I'm not saying this to be rude, but if you're tired of hearing it, why do you read these threads? If it bothers you so much, it'd be easier to just not read it.

And about getting another job: I'm pretty sure graduate TAs aren't allowed to get another job on campus. I currently work at McMaster as an assistant and the same rule applies to me. When I get strapped for cash, I get another job OFF campus. TAs can do the same.

You think Macinsiders is the only place where people are talking shit about TAs? Come on, now.

And thanks for clarification on the job thing. I wasn't sure how that worked.

TAs are getting the bad wrap in all of this.

Its their shitty union CUPE that should be taking the flack, not them.

Are the people bitching about the Graduate TAs wages really implying that its okay to pay someone for only half the hours they actually work just because they feel their hourly rate is too high?

For any of you that have a part time job I'd love to hear what you'd say if your manager decided you make too much money per hour so they're only going to pay you for half the hours you actually work.

Its wrong not to compensate people for the amount of time they actually work regardless of the fact that you think they make too much per hour.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with with the hourly rate for the different TA groups but that's not up to me to decide nor is a wage decrease being debated. I'm saying its wrong not to compensate people for the hours they work and to allow people to be overworked.

Originally Posted by sew12

TAs are getting the bad wrap in all of this.

Its their shitty union CUPE that should be taking the flack, not them.

Are the people bitching about the Graduate TAs wages really implying that its okay to pay someone for only half the hours they actually work just because they feel their hourly rate is too high?

For any of you that have a part time job I'd love to hear what you'd say if your manager decided you make too much money per hour so they're only going to pay you for half the hours you actually work.

Its wrong not to compensate people for the amount of time they actually work regardless of the fact that you think they make too much per hour.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with with the hourly rate for the different TA groups but that's not up to me to decide nor is a wage decrease being debated. I'm saying its wrong not to compensate people for the hours they work and to allow people to be overworked.

I never said that it was okay for TAs to work more hours than they are paid. No one said that.

I just said, personally, I wouldn't complain because if you figure out how much money they actually make per hour by including the time they work without getting paid, it's still a very, VERY high wage.

I think there is an assumption that the amount of work one does in a Master's is comparable to a Bachelor's. None of us (undergrads) can really say how different the two levels of education are because we don't really know what Masters classes are like.

Although class time is decreased. the amount of readings (clearly I'm talking about Humanities programs here, specifically English and/or CSCT) you have to do is a lot more. I can't say how much, but the Mac grad students I talked to said it was a LOT...

If we (as undergrads) spend three hours on homework for every hour of class (something I've been told by several different lecturers in first year) the amount they spend must be higher. I know in seminar classes (which are an intermediary between MA seminars and lower-level undergrad classes) the amount of readings we have to do increased quite a bit, probably around 200 pages/week per class.

For myself, I'm struggling to get all of my readings done/aren't even finishing some of them, and I read much quicker than your average student. Although I'm not working, I do a bunch of different extra-curricular activities that amount to around ten hours a week.

For those of you saying a TA should go out and get another job if they want more money there may not be the time for it...I don't think I could handle being a TA and getting another job on top of it. I would be incredibly overwhelmed.

This doesn't really tie into any of the arguments going on right now, but I think it is a valid item to bring to the table. If any of you in fourth/fifth year classes think that this is your easiest year out of all you've completed in terms of workload and expectations I would be very surprised.

Originally Posted by lorend

I think there is an assumption that the amount of work one does in a Master's is comparable to a Bachelor's. None of us (undergrads) can really say how different the two levels of education are because we don't really know what Masters classes are like.

Although class time is decreased. the amount of readings (clearly I'm talking about Humanities programs here, specifically English and/or CSCT) you have to do is a lot more. I can't say how much, but the Mac grad students I talked to said it was a LOT...

If we (as undergrads) spend three hours on homework for every hour of class (something I've been told by several different lecturers in first year) the amount they spend must be higher. I know in seminar classes (which are an intermediary between MA seminars and lower-level undergrad classes) the amount of readings we have to do increased quite a bit, probably around 200 pages/week per class.

For myself, I'm struggling to get all of my readings done/aren't even finishing some of them, and I read much quicker than your average student. Although I'm not working, I do a bunch of different extra-curricular activities that amount to around ten hours a week.

For those of you saying a TA should go out and get another job if they want more money there may not be the time for it...I don't think I could handle being a TA and getting another job on top of it. I would be incredibly overwhelmed.

This doesn't really tie into any of the arguments going on right now, but I think it is a valid item to bring to the table. If any of you in fourth/fifth year classes think that this is your easiest year out of all you've completed in terms of workload and expectations I would be very surprised.

While I'm definitely in a different program, I'm doing school, plus two (2) jobs, and fairly heavy extra-curriculars. While each person's capacity is different, it's certainly possible for a TA to get another job... though it may not be so in every case.

Originally Posted by lorend

I think there is an assumption that the amount of work one does in a Master's is comparable to a Bachelor's. None of us (undergrads) can really say how different the two levels of education are because we don't really know what Masters classes are like.

Although class time is decreased. the amount of readings (clearly I'm talking about Humanities programs here, specifically English and/or CSCT) you have to do is a lot more. I can't say how much, but the Mac grad students I talked to said it was a LOT...

If we (as undergrads) spend three hours on homework for every hour of class (something I've been told by several different lecturers in first year) the amount they spend must be higher. I know in seminar classes (which are an intermediary between MA seminars and lower-level undergrad classes) the amount of readings we have to do increased quite a bit, probably around 200 pages/week per class.

For myself, I'm struggling to get all of my readings done/aren't even finishing some of them, and I read much quicker than your average student. Although I'm not working, I do a bunch of different extra-curricular activities that amount to around ten hours a week.

For those of you saying a TA should go out and get another job if they want more money there may not be the time for it...I don't think I could handle being a TA and getting another job on top of it. I would be incredibly overwhelmed.

This doesn't really tie into any of the arguments going on right now, but I think it is a valid item to bring to the table. If any of you in fourth/fifth year classes think that this is your easiest year out of all you've completed in terms of workload and expectations I would be very surprised.

I agree. I don't necessarily agree with CUPE's actions, but it's frustrating that T.A.'s are getting the worst of the anger directed towards them.

I'm only doing a thesis this term and I spend 30-40 hours in the lab alone on top of any course work and extracurriculars. It's definitely the most stressful year so far. Masters and PhD students spend much more time in the lab, plus they do readings, take courses, write articles, prep for tutorials/labs, etc.

Although many people are complaining that T.A.'s should be getting extra jobs to pay for living expenses, they've ignored the fact that working another job on top of graduate work, and courses can be incredibly dangeous. Especially if they're working with harmful chemicals or heavy machinery - exhaustion can lead to huge accidents.