Originally Posted by Mahratta

do you say 'my yellow/brown/white/black friend'

Yes.

If they don't know a name, I say "the brown one you met last weekend" or something of the sort.

I'm sure people do it to me. "The short one with the bad roots and the cool shoes."

Whatever.

If people get offended for someone reffering to their skin colour in a non-deragotory way, then I guess I should get offended for people commenting on my height. It's not like I can make myself grow.

feel free to correct/ disagree with me, but isn't calling someone yellow in reference to them being asian kind of racist? maybe its just me, but it seems like it has a more derogatory connotation, like the washington redskins.

Originally Posted by brendanp

feel free to correct/ disagree with me, but isn't calling someone yellow in reference to them being asian kind of racist? maybe its just me, but it seems like it has a more derogatory connotation, like the washington redskins.

lol yeah one of the more interesting dilemmas. Because apparently "yellow" isn't a popularly acceptable term for people of Oriental background. Whereas most South Asian people have no issues being called "Brown"; I don't think there is a precedent for calling Asian's Yellow :S

I wish I was a color : (

Originally Posted by brendanp

feel free to correct/ disagree with me, but isn't calling someone yellow in reference to them being asian kind of racist? maybe its just me, but it seems like it has a more derogatory connotation, like the washington redskins.

*shrugs*

I'm Asian/Yellow. I don't really see how it's any different than people talking about being Eggs or Bananas. As long as it's not used in a derogatory manner or with a malicious intent, I don't see the issue. I think it's the fact that they had other words for us that weren't so nice, that yellow is kind of neutral.

Apparently in the case of the "redskins", Natives were called "Red" in a derogatory manner and the negative connations still exist today. This is the same reason why most people don't run around dropping the N word, beause of the past associations with the term.

I wish I was a color : (

Light yellow? Or you could always be speckled white & yellow. Haha.

To Huzaifa: we're not all in an argumentative mood (what with the TA strike and all the death threats to scabs :p), so I'm going to withdraw from the discussion once I clarify a few things so you don't feel like I was trying to say anything offensive:


1) The main point of my remark was to say that people have 'arbitrary definitions' (not quite the concept I'm getting at...since 'abitrary' has more of a 'it doesn't really matter' feeling to it, whereas ill-defined merely means people disagree) of what constitutes racism...and if you're trying to determine someone's characteristics based on name, gender, facial hair, etc. it doesn't really sit right with me (and other people, possibly a minority but that's irrelevant, likely agree).

2) When I said "Everyone's right but me" I didn't mean you were being elitist or something like that...I'm simply saying that if you're being all precise, and everyone else is being 'wrong' the majority wins. I tried to put it in a humourous way, but the humour was lost apparently. :p


With that, I think I'm done here for a bit. :p Illness, Midterms, assignments and Strike politics are getting the better of me.

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Oh I did want to say that my skin is actually a twinge of yellow, despite being 'white'...I had jaundice as a kid, and for some reason it never fully went away. xD

loooooool

Originally Posted by Jay

Light yellow? Or you could always be speckled white & yellow. Haha.

Someone called be a banana milkshake once, I was offended haha.

Personally, I think having racially-oriented student groups and clubs at Mac is inherently racist, because it groups people based on racial or cultural criteria instead of encouraging them to bridge cultural gaps with their fellow students.

Just think of the shitstorm that would erupt if a Caucasian Students Association or a Mens-Only Club was started, yet African Students Associations and the Chinese Engineering Club are chartered on the exact same ideological premise.

White Men: the only group on the planet not allowed to celebrate their culture or identity without being called racists or mysoginists.

Originally Posted by collymolotov

Just think of the shitstorm that would erupt if a Caucasian Students Association or a Mens-Only Club was started, yet African Students Associations and the Chinese Engineering Club are chartered on the exact same ideological premise.

In "other" countries -- especially those where enlgish is not the most commonly spoken language -- it is extremely common for groups of english speaking Western expats to get together as groups socially.

Originally Posted by daisy

In "other" countries -- especially those where enlgish is not the most commonly spoken language -- it is extremely common for groups of english speaking Western expats to get together as groups socially.

Oh, I have no doubt of that. I'm simply pointing out the taboo on such associations in the US or Canada as un-PC, especially in overwhelmingly PC/Liberal environments like Universities.

Originally Posted by collymolotov

Personally, I think having racially-oriented student groups and clubs at Mac is inherently racist, because it groups people based on racial or cultural criteria instead of encouraging them to bridge cultural gaps with their fellow students.

Originally Posted by collymolotov

Oh, I have no doubt of that. I'm simply pointing out the taboo on such associations in the US or Canada as un-PC, especially in overwhelmingly PC/Liberal environments like Universities.

And I am saying that it just happens that people find something (companionship, comradeship, relief?, comfort, fun, whatever) in getting together with others with a similar background sometimes. People who take part in these groups -- regardless of the country -- are generally taking part in the society and the community on a daily basis, and are bridging gaps outside of the group.

Heck, when I go to England for extended periods, it's a relief for me to hear a Canadian accent on the television news LOL!! I can understand what the person is saying, without straining . If English were my second language, I can only imagine how pleasant it would be to get together occasionally with a group of people from the culture/country/language of origin and speak my first language or just hang out, you know? I expect that this would be amplified even more if I were an international student away from home.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

By this logic, I can't ever use any descriptive words...because even if it's not 'offensive or derogatory' it segregates people into tall, short, young, old, blonde, brown haired, blue eyed, etc. How could you ever describe anyone, to anyone else?

The main issue I have with labels is its arbitrariness. How would you define an "Asian"?

Terms like 'tall' and 'short' are relative - do we use a term like 'Asian' relatively, or more or less as an absolute identifier? There's the difference between labels like 'tall', 'old' and 'young' - it's not a proper comparison, since a description of race is not relative (in most cases, at least).

Originally Posted by Fight0

Someone called be a banana milkshake once, I was offended haha.

: (

The main issue I have with labels is its arbitrariness. How would you define an "Asian"?

Terms like 'tall' and 'short' are relative - do we use a term like 'Asian' relatively, or more or less as an absolute identifier? There's the difference between labels like 'tall', 'old' and 'young' - it's not a proper comparison, since a description of race is not relative (in most cases, at least).

That would be like saying that it's inappropriate to use "Brunette" as a label. It's not a relative label, but it's not offensive either.

Originally Posted by collymolotov

Personally, I think having racially-oriented student groups and clubs at Mac is inherently racist, because it groups people based on racial or cultural criteria instead of encouraging them to bridge cultural gaps with their fellow students.

Just think of the shitstorm that would erupt if a Caucasian Students Association or a Mens-Only Club was started, yet African Students Associations and the Chinese Engineering Club are chartered on the exact same ideological premise.

White Men: the only group on the planet not allowed to celebrate their culture or identity without being called racists or mysoginists.

The reason why it is racist if white people create their own group is due to racist history. Let's say things were different, instead of black slavery/oppression there was white slavery/oppression, it would be racist if black people created their own group due to the racist history.

That's how things are. One of the reasons why non-whites create their group is because they want to meet people who are like them. People who might share the same interests and values. I also think it is due to the fact that some might feel that they will more likely be accepted by the people in that group.

I know people who have joined the cultural groups here at Mac which made them feel welcomed here at Mac and much more comfortable in school because they didn't feel rejected or an outsider.

I disagree with you when you said that creating racially-oriented groups is racist because it groups people into racial/cultural criteria. I disagree because it would be much more racist to not allow racially-oriented groups because some people are just much more comfortable hanging out with people of their own race. All of the members of this groups voluntarily join the group. They are not forced into it. The only time that racially oriented groups would be racist is if it forces people to join the group.

I do get what you mean by bridging cultural gaps instead of having racially-oriented groups. The only thing is, people can still be a part of racially-oriented groups and still socialized with people from other races. I have a friend who grew up in Malaysia, he is white, and he admits that he is much more comfortable hanging out with his Malaysian friends than his white friends because he shares common values with his Malaysian friends. And so can you imagine if racially-oriented groups are not allowed, he would probably feel like an outsider.