What do you think she will say?
I can't imagine her having the balls to say anything bad about our health care at a hospital fundraiser (though, she is pretty stupid..)

But I can't think of anything meaningful that she could possibly talk about?

You're right, instead she'll talk about death panels and abortion being the anti-christ...

Originally Posted by Infinity

thats what im trying to say. sarah palin? you could definitely get someone a lot better. She criticizes our country and our health care yet shes being allowed to have her say on our soil

So someone who criticizes our country shouldn't be allowed into the country to speak?

Originally Posted by J-Met

I dont have a problem at all with the amount of money being spent on her. What I have a problem with is us allowing such a lying, ignorant, and overall wrong person speaking in front of a group of people who help run one of Canada's most cherished social systems.

Yes because a differing opinion is such a terrible thing. We just can't ALLOW free speech or else our most "cherished social system" is vulnerable to change. THERE CAN'T BE DEBATE!

This women has lied and fearmongered constantly about how "socialised medicine" will lead to death panels and the automatic killing of mentally handicapped babies. She has repeatedly ignored all hard facts, and used the Canadian health care system as an example of government waste when, through are taxes, canadians pay half as much for virtually the same health coverage as Americans do.

To be honest I'm not sure where she got the idea that they'd kill disabled babies. That said the advanced directives legislation was a bit chilly. To a non-lawyer on the first time hearing the wording it sounded like it would financially penalize the doctor if the patient did not sign an advance directive. That said, there have now been assurances that it does not in fact do so.

As to the comparison between the two systems its not exactly cut and dried. Here are some other variables other than the fact that we have entirely socialized medicine:

1) Americans with coverage have pretty good care compared to canada. Less waits, more time with the doctor etc.

2) Americans have higher proportions of races that are predisposed to high cost chronic illnesses.

3) Canadians live healthier lives.

4) There is no universal coverage (note: universal coverage does not necessarily mean "single public payer" system but rather that no one lacks coverage). Therefore people wait till something is an emergency and then go to the emergency room where they are treated at much greater costs that are pretty much unrecoverable. This leads to higher costs for everyone else.

5) Education is subsidized to a much greater extent in Canada then in the US. High salaries are needed to pay off the debts of healthcare professionals in the US.

This women has proven time and time again she has no grasp of complex issues. Call it intellectual elitism or not, but Sarah Palin quite simply has no right to even comment on the economics of any health care system. Either she is just plain dumb and can't understand simple numbers, or she is willingly lieing to help out her fellow republicans who are all in the pockets of insurance companies.

I do not believe that we should selective deny people their RIGHT of free speech based on their intelligence. If they are truly ignorant then they will be exposed as such. But we must not descend to a totalitarian society where only those with "worthy" views are allowed a voice.

Someone who willfully manipulates the public with lies and corporate sponsored misinformation should not be given a platform to speak.

I for one think freedom of speech is used too often as an excuse for tolerating ignorance. One could say that the Klu Klux Klan or Hitler had every right to say what they said, but the fact of the matter is that what they said hurt people. I dont care if its auithoritarian or not, but some people and outlets do need to be censored for the good of the public.

I am by no means saying that the ignorance Palin exudes is even on a level near to that of Hitler or the KKK, and I dont mean to say that we shouldn't allow her to speak. I just have a problem with people saying that freedom of speech is completely limitless, because its not, as it shouldn't be.

Either way, I don't think Canadians, seeing as most of us are smart and rational people, should lower ourselves to even awknowledging someone so stupid. My opposition to her speaking here really has nothing to do with freedom of speech. She can blast Canadian health care and act like an ignoramus all she wants, but providing her with a willing audience seems to be simply below us.

Originally Posted by J-Met

Someone who willfully manipulates the public with lies and corporate sponsored misinformation should not be given a platform to speak.

Not to be a pessimist, but that would also include almost every politician and media outlet that currently exists. They have the right to say what they want, and we have the responsibility to make sure that they are telling the truth before we believe them.

(I've been following the health care debate pretty closely as well, although I usually don't bother reading anything Palin says. Has she actually been lying, or just relying heavily on anecdotal evidence and strawman arguments like most others?)

Originally Posted by J-Met

Someone who willfully manipulates the public with lies and corporate sponsored misinformation should not be given a platform to speak.

I for one think freedom of speech is used too often as an excuse for tolerating ignorance. One could say that the Klu Klux Klan or Hitler had every right to say what they said, but the fact of the matter is that what they said hurt people. I dont care if its auithoritarian or not, but some people and outlets do need to be censored for the good of the public.

I am by no means saying that the ignorance Palin exudes is even on a level near to that of Hitler or the KKK, and I dont mean to say that we shouldn't allow her to speak. I just have a problem with people saying that freedom of speech is completely limitless, because its not, as it shouldn't be.

Either way, I don't think Canadians, seeing as most of us are smart and rational people, should lower ourselves to even awknowledging someone so stupid. My opposition to her speaking here really has nothing to do with freedom of speech. She can blast Canadian health care and act like an ignoramus all she wants, but providing her with a willing audience seems to be simply below us.

The difference between Palin and the KKK, Hitler etc. Is that Palin's speech is not attempting to promote lawless or violent behaviour. IE. threatening someone, inciting people to attack a minority group. I have trouble seeing how a rational person can believe that we should censor uncomfortable or "wrong" opinions unless they are truly causing danger. There's nothing to stop your opinion from being the next to be verboten.

As to whether we should choose provide her a platform to speak, is another matter. But that is up to those who host these events to choose who they wish to speak. Would I have chosen Palin? NO! But the organizers made their choice and unless she is threatening someone by speaking, it's not our right to take away their choice.

Beyond that the attacks on her motives are just hilarious. Come on now. Do we want to really play the game of which politician is in the pocket of which special interests. Here's a hint: EVERY POLITICIAN OWES SOMETHING TO SEVERAL SPECIAL INTERESTS. If we use that as an excuse to censor people we should just duct tape shut the mouth of every politician. Hey! That's not a bad idea....

I'm sure Sarah Palin is a OKAY person. Sure she's not forbbidin from the country she lives like right beside Canada anyway. The point here is: its completely unesscarry to have person like that represented for charity. This earth has 6 billion people on it the very best they could do was get Sarah Palin? Like what greatness has she brought? She is only famous for being a stupid politician and making a fool of herself which she will do at the event. Its NOT worth it

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

(I've been following the health care debate pretty closely as well, although I usually don't bother reading anything Palin says. Has she actually been lying, or just relying heavily on anecdotal evidence and strawman arguments like most others?)

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."

-Sarah Palin

I dont know if you would consider that I lie or not but it sure as hell isn't the truth lol.

Originally Posted by J-Met

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."

-Sarah Palin

I dont know if you would consider that I lie or not but it sure as hell isn't the truth lol.

Untruth =/= lie. Based on the fact she's less than intelligent, is it not possible that like thousands of other Americans she misinterpreted the legislation, especially since as a political opponent she'd be inclined to see the worst in it?

Besides which, while I'm not sure of how reliable the data is, one survey of physicians suggested only around ~5% recommended carrying a Down's Syndrome baby to term, and that ~90% of women with a fetus with down's syndrome aborted their fetus. (These are UK numbers I believe). Now to the majority of people who say "so what?" imagine living in a country where they have never had government controlled health care and having a child with down's syndrome who a significant proportion of people think you should have aborted before they were born. Would you be afraid that the government would say "you're on your own" if you want to raise the child?

I'm not defending her conclusion, but I'm suggesting it might not be a deliberate lie.

Originally Posted by Infinity

I'm sure Sarah Palin is a OKAY person. Sure she's not forbbidin from the country she lives like right beside Canada anyway. The point here is: its completely unesscarry to have person like that represented for charity. This earth has 6 billion people on it the very best they could do was get Sarah Palin? Like what greatness has she brought? She is only famous for being a stupid politician and making a fool of herself which she will do at the event. Its NOT worth it

Well if they make money then they'll be vindicated, if not well then you have the satisfaction of being right.

Ok she's not that stupid to actually believe in 'death panels'

Its obvious she's just supporting an anti-Democratic position just because she's a Republican.

Its stupid, and petty and makes me sick to my guts ... to see politicians stoop so low!

Originally Posted by manaya

Its stupid, and petty and makes me sick to my guts ... to see politicians stoop so low!

Why is it surprising to people when politicians act like politicians. They have long since acted solely for the publics interests yet people are always surprised by this fact. I would be more surprised when they do act for our good then when they are up to their politicing.

Originally Posted by J-Met

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."

-Sarah Palin

I dont know if you would consider that I lie or not but it sure as hell isn't the truth lol.

I would say misleading, but its not an out and out lie. Decisions have to be made about how much healthcare is reasonable to give someone, for an elderly person to receive a very expensive surgery that might extend their life for a few months obviously would make no sense. It would take limited health resources away from every other citizen. The decision about where the line would be drawn for this would be set by the government for anyone on government healthcare.

The most misleading part is to suggest that insurance companies aren't currently doing the exact same thing.

Also, I just watched the clip. Which just was further proof for me that most Canadian TV isn't worth watching. =/

Originally Posted by JeffB

Why is it surprising to people when politicians act like politicians. They have long since acted solely for the publics interests yet people are always surprised by this fact. I would be more surprised when they do act for our good then when they are up to their politicing.

LOL

Its true ... but a man can dream can't he?