Originally Posted by Infinity

I'm sure Sarah Palin is a OKAY person. Sure she's not forbbidin from the country she lives like right beside Canada anyway. The point here is: its completely unesscarry to have person like that represented for charity. This earth has 6 billion people on it the very best they could do was get Sarah Palin? Like what greatness has she brought? She is only famous for being a stupid politician and making a fool of herself which she will do at the event. Its NOT worth it

I agree.
Why do they want a speaker at the event? So they can have someone famous say "This is a great cause, please donate!"

.. Sarah Palin isn't going to do that. She doesn't believe in publically funded hospitals, so she's not going to promote giving money to them. So why is she coming? What will she say that could possibly be useful to the hospitals? She's going to create a lot of contraversy but that doesn't mean people are going to donate money. I don't understand..

Originally Posted by Kathy2

I agree.
Why do they want a speaker at the event? So they can have someone famous say "This is a great cause, please donate!"

.. Sarah Palin isn't going to do that. She doesn't believe in publically funded hospitals, so she's not going to promote giving money to them. So why is she coming? What will she say that could possibly be useful to the hospitals? She's going to create a lot of contraversy but that doesn't mean people are going to donate money. I don't understand..

Exactly.

If people are hosting a charity to fight/raise awareness for AIDS, you don't have a speaker who's going to proclaim "AIDS isn't real! etcetc"

And IF you do, you certainly wouldn't get the most imcompetent person there is to do it.

What benefits could there possibly be to her being there? She doesn't support our system, she certainly SHOULDN'T criticize it at a CHARITY EVENT if they want people to DONATE, so get someone else to be there!

Seriously, Al Pacino is more fitting than she is.

Originally Posted by JeffB

Why is it surprising to people when politicians act like politicians. They have long since acted solely for the publics interests yet people are always surprised by this fact. I would be more surprised when they do act for our good then when they are up to their politicing.

I think you mean special interests, not public interests. And just another rant: Im sick of everyone's universal disdain for politicians. The only time anyone ever pays attention to politicians is when one of them gets in trouble, yet we forget that many of them spend most of their time working on programmes they genuinely think will help the public.

As an example, I've heard countless people say how Dalton McGuinty is "just another lying politician" after all the ehealth and lottery scandals. But when is the last time you've heard someone praise him for banning smoking in public places, enacting the greenbelt, or his commitment to same-sex marriage. If you still can't convince yourself that not all politicians are no-good liars, go onto Youtube and take a look at US senators Al Franken, Sherrod Brown, and Bernie Sanders, or congressmen Dennis Kucinich and Alan Grayson...among MANY others.

Sarah Palin should in no way be compared to as "just another politician." First of all, she holds no public office at the moment. Secondly, there are countless politicians in both Canada in the United States that are genuinely trying to do good, and it angers me that everyone groups them in with the few bad apples.

Originally Posted by J-Met

I think you mean special interests, not public interests. And just another rant: Im sick of everyone's universal disdain for politicians. The only time anyone ever pays attention to politicians is when one of them gets in trouble, yet we forget that many of them spend most of their time working on programmes they genuinely think will help the public.

As an example, I've heard countless people say how Dalton McGuinty is "just another lying politician" after all the ehealth and lottery scandals. But when is the last time you've heard someone praise him for banning smoking in public places, enacting the greenbelt, or his commitment to same-sex marriage. If you still can't convince yourself that not all politicians are no-good liars, go onto Youtube and take a look at US senators Al Franken, Sherrod Brown, and Bernie Sanders, or congressmen Dennis Kucinich and Alan Grayson...among MANY others.

Sarah Palin should in no way be compared to as "just another politician." First of all, she holds no public office at the moment. Secondly, there are countless politicians in both Canada in the United States that are genuinely trying to do good, and it angers me that everyone groups them in with the few bad apples.

I think in the case of politicians, its generally a few good apples tossed in with a load of bad ones. For every principled politician, you get several more that bend to the demands of lobbyists, take bribes, and care more about public opinion than doing the right thing. This doesn't necessarily make them bad people, it makes them human. Politicians are entrusted with power, which has a corrupting effect. Some people are more resistant, but everyone has their price.

One reason that politicians tend to be known more for their corruptions instead of their principles is that not everyone agrees that the principles they act on are a good thing. In the examples you listed, most oppose free trade. If they succeed in sticking to that principle, only one side is happy. If they become corrupt though they'll be attacked by both sides, because everyone can agree that a corrupt politician is not a good one.

But if we're on the topic of principled politicians... RON PAUL 2012!

If there is one thing I can agree with Ron Paul fans on, is that yes, he is principled. But I wont get started on what I disagree with him on...thats a topic for another thread lol.

Re: Principled Politicians.

I agree 100% politicians are generally good people.

That doesn't mean that any politician with a semblance of intelligence doesn't realize that to make a difference they have to be in power. Unfortunately we as an electorate elect the stereotypical politician so that is what we get.

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

I think in the case of politicians, its generally a few good apples tossed in with a load of bad ones. For every principled politician, you get several more that bend to the demands of lobbyists, take bribes, and care more about public opinion than doing the right thing. This doesn't necessarily make them bad people, it makes them human. Politicians are entrusted with power, which has a corrupting effect. Some people are more resistant, but everyone has their price.

LOL Andrew

Its not as simple as natural moral corruption.

Most Politicians get elected based on millions of dollars of fund raising and block voting promises(from unions, religious organizations etc).

Now here's the thing most people ignore, If someone gives you money they don't do so because they believe in you or whatever your agenda is. No one gives a shit. They give you money because they want something in return.

After someone gets elected there are multi million dollar lobbying organizations that have MP's/Senators/Congressmen on their books to enact something they want. It becomes I scratch your back you scratch mine in the long run. Every one in Capitol hill is under pressure from lobbyists, unions, demands of their voters, media coverage. It's not as easy as choosing between what is right/wrong!

But then there are Radical ones that stick to their beliefs like Ron Paul or George Galloway in England.

When I was talking about corruption I didn't just mean going mad with power (it might happen to some dictators, but I don't think any developed county gives a politician enough power for that to be an issue ).

But the people who make decisions are always going to be magnets for bribes/campaign contributions, as you pointed out. That's when they start making decisions based on who's paying them instead of logic or their principles (which should be, but aren't the same thing). If a politician is making decisions based on special interests that paid them, or based on winning elections, that's corruption to me.

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

If a politician is making decisions based on special interests that paid them, or based on winning elections, that's corruption to me.

Well you are quite idealistic in that sense THAT is a fact of political life from my perspective! It happens in every country all the time.

Atleast we agree that Lockheed Martin or any Weapons manufacturing company won't be donating a single dime to Ron Paul anytime soon!

I suppose I can be a bit unrealistic in my standards for politicians

And hurrah to that!

Great idea; lets invite Ahmadinejad to speak at holocaust awareness events in Canada too....:rolleyeschris tmas2:

:rolleyeschristmas:

Originally Posted by rcrw88

Great idea; lets invite Ahmadinejad to speak at holocaust awareness events in Canada too....:rolleyeschris tmas2:

:rolleyeschristmas:

Hmmm ... dunno if thatz it bad taste or not ...

But i guess the motive behind that was good ... and had a point as well

I guess i'll chuckle at that ...

he he =)

Originally Posted by J-Met

I dont have a problem at all with the amount of money being spent on her. What I have a problem with is us allowing such a lying, ignorant, and overall wrong person speaking in front of a group of people who help run one of Canada's most cherished social systems.

This women has lied and fearmongered constantly about how "socialised medicine" will lead to death panels and the automatic killing of mentally handicapped babies. She has repeatedly ignored all hard facts, and used the Canadian health care system as an example of government waste when, through are taxes, canadians pay half as much for virtually the same health coverage as Americans do.

This women has proven time and time again she has no grasp of complex issues. Call it intellectual elitism or not, but Sarah Palin quite simply has no right to even comment on the economics of any health care system. Either she is just plain dumb and can't understand simple numbers, or she is willingly lieing to help out her fellow republicans who are all in the pockets of insurance companies.

As someone who has been following the healthcare debate in the United States closely, the lies and misinformation that have been spread by the right in that country are sickening. Sarah Palin is one of those responsible for the tens of thousands that die every year in the US because of lack of health coverage. She should be given no audience by anyone who believes even remotely in the idea of universal health care.

Your Obama picture makes it very hard to take your comment seriously. Obama is just a PR figure, he's pretty much the same thing as Sarah Palin, with well trained people pulling strings behind him. Nothing he says sounds sincere. His eyes are so blank:(

But bringing Palin to Hamilton has got to be the biggest insult to this city. I think there will be a pretty big protest.

Originally Posted by jo87

Your Obama picture makes it very hard to take your comment seriously. Obama is just a PR figure, he's pretty much the same thing as Sarah Palin, with well trained people pulling strings behind him. Nothing he says sounds sincere. His eyes are so blank:(

Please give me concrete examples and I'll be happy to argue with you.

In Macedonia we have this saying, "kakov narod, takvi politicari". Pretty much it means that the kind of politicians elected reflect the general characteristics of the nation. I think this is almost always true, especially in democracies.

In the case of Canada, it can be said political apathy is reflected in the ways some politicians have lost their sense of public service. Someone listed some examples above of where they have used their positions to benefit themselves.

The same things can be said about the US, but we could also suggest that much greater problems exist there. For example, the support received by Barack Obama and Hilary Clinton based on irrelevant characteristics (one being a person of colour, the other a woman) is particularly troubling.

The best and worst part about democracy is that anyone can vote, and for whatever reason they please. This is a big problem because it impacts on the ways those in leadership positions act.