Originally Posted by amyf

I realize what point you were attempting to make, I was simply pointing out that the comparison you used to support said point was flawed. Rape is not comparable to skin cancer.

I do agree that rape is a reality in the world we live in. I just don't think we should accept it. I think we need to change our attitudes so that rape is less accepted, so that hopefully it will become less common and appropriately punished.

"If you do not want to be raped, it is your responsibility to take appropriate precautions."
Rape is one of the only crimes where people think that it is the victim's responsibility to prevent the crime. Just because many women do take precautions in response to living in a rape culture, it does not mean it is their responsibility. Why is placing the responsibility on the victim only acceptable when the crime is rape?
http://thegloss.com/culture/what-hap...her-than-rape/

I don't think rape is accepted by any means. I don't think anyone is saying we should just accept rape.

As for rape being one of the only crimes where people think its the victims responsibility to prevent the crime, that's hardly true. You're expected to lock your door so there's less of a chance of people breaking into your house. You're expected to hide, or not keep valuables in your car so there's less of a chance of it getting broken into. You're expected to avoid sketch neighborhoods late at night so you don't get mugged. Etc. There's a lot of situations in which the victim is expected to attempt precautionary measures.

Originally Posted by amyf

Statements such as this one perpetuate rape culture:

"Rape culture is pervasive insistence that false reports are common, although they are less common (1.6%) than false reports of auto theft (2.6%)

Wait, what?

Why did you arbitrarily compare the percentage of false rapes to false accusations of auto theft?

Originally Posted by amyf

Rape culture is pervasive claims that women make rape accusations willy-nilly, when 61% of rapes remain unreported."

Why would a man risk attacking a woman who could identify him? 61% of women don't report, and the vast majority (about 85%) of reported rapes don't result in conviction. Our culture makes it appallingly easy to get away with rape.

Saying that all acquaintance- and date-rapes must be false accusations is ridiculous.

Does anyone else find it hilarious that the quote followed up the first bolded statement with a statistic that, due to its own nature, can't possibly be proven?

Originally Posted by amyf

Rape is not comparable to skin cancer.

Actually, Amy it is.

I don't have any statistics, (which you're clearly very fond of) but I assure you its a great analogy.

Originally Posted by crazyfree

I don't think rape is accepted by any means. I don't think anyone is saying we should just accept rape.

As for rape being one of the only crimes where people think its the victims responsibility to prevent the crime, that's hardly true. You're expected to lock your door so there's less of a chance of people breaking into your house. You're expected to hide, or not keep valuables in your car so there's less of a chance of it getting broken into. You're expected to avoid sketch neighborhoods late at night so you don't get mugged. Etc. There's a lot of situations in which the victim is expected to attempt precautionary measures.

No one here is saying rape is acceptable- in those words.
As a culture, though, we don't treat rape seriously enough. Again, I urge you to read this article: http://finallyfeminism101.wo rdpres...e-culture-101/ It clearly articulates how, as a society, we accept rape far more than we should.

We are expected to take precautions with things such as property theft, but if your stuff is stolen, you won't be blamed if you didn't lock your door, and the police will still probably investigate. If a women goes out alone and gets drunk, she will be blamed for being attacked and the chance that the crime will be investigated is low.
I should state that I find these kind of comparisons of limited helpfulness, though. Theft is not a hateful, personal crime in most cases. Rape is.

Originally Posted by amyf

Statements such as this one perpetuate rape culture:

"Rape culture is pervasive insistence that false reports are common, although they are less common (1.6%) than false reports of auto theft (2.6%). Rape culture is pervasive claims that women make rape accusations willy-nilly, when 61% of rapes remain unreported."

Why would a man risk attacking a woman who could identify him? 61% of women don't report, and the vast majority (about 85%) of reported rapes don't result in conviction. Our culture makes it appallingly easy to get away with rape.

Saying that all acquaintance- and date-rapes must be false accusations is ridiculous.

61% of rapes remain unreported because the individual know it wasn't rape and won't hold up in court. It was found that 57% of rape cases are false accusation from disgruntle lovers or ex. This correlate with the 85% statistic of rapes resulting in a non-conviction.

Our culture makes it appallingly easy to accuse individuals with rape. In 2010 alone, there was 159 articles related to false accusation. One victim was imprison for 10 years and was later release due to new DNA evidences.

To further reinforce the notion that the so called "rape" was misunderstood, I want to link you guys articles relating to sleep sex victims.

Sexsomia is a condition where the person engage in sexual behavior without their direct controlled. About 34% of adults suffered from this condition. The female participant in these cases report it as rape about 43% of the time, but that isn't true.

Recently, in 2008, it was reported that a non-guilty conviction was upheld due to sexsomia.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=292924

A more recent article is found in 2010 involving a male wrongly convicted of rape.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...12/2818094.htm

Not surprisingly the incident involved heavy alcohols. It does reinforce the fact that in 69% of the cases, the women was completely drunk and mislead the male victim 45% of the time. Or the fact that in 76% of the cases, it was deemed uncontrollable for the aggressor. He couldn't resist so to speak.

The discussion should really be shifty toward the original focus of the thread. Are overly sexual individuals responsible for the actions acted upon them?

It seems more than one person agree.

Originally Posted by crazyfree

You're expected to lock your door so there's less of a chance of people breaking into your house. You're expected to hide, or not keep valuables in your car so there's less of a chance of it getting broken into. You're expected to avoid sketch neighborhoods late at night so you don't get mugged. Etc. There's a lot of situations in which the victim is expected to attempt precautionary measures.

In this thread alone, there are 35% of replies that agree to this ideology.

Originally Posted by amyf

No one here is saying rape is acceptable- in those words.
As a culture, though, we don't treat rape seriously enough. Again, I urge you to read this article: http://finallyfeminism101.wo rdpres...e-culture-101/ It clearly articulates how, as a society, we accept rape far more than we should.

We are expected to take precautions with things such as property theft, but if your stuff is stolen, you won't be blamed if you didn't lock your door, and the police will still probably investigate. If a women goes out alone and gets drunk, she will be blamed for being attacked and the chance that the crime will be investigated is low.
I should state that I find these kind of comparisons of limited helpfulness, though. Theft is not a hateful, personal crime in most cases. Rape is.

I disagree so much with this. I would definitely blame the victim of burglary if they didn't lock their door. And are there statistics to show that rape is rarely investigated if the victim admits to being drunk? Because I'd be interested to see that.

Which makes wonder, can anyone actually tell me why people rape other's? I'm sure there's a ton of reasons but what's the psychology behind it? That might clear up a bit of debate.
/not in the mood for research

And..yeah..if I didn't lock my door and I got robbed I think I was an idiot. But that's unrelated to the topic, and I'm not making a metaphor/allusion/whatever-I'm-not-an-English-major with that statement.

Originally Posted by Entropy

Wait, what?

Why did you arbitrarily compare the percentage of false rapes to false accusations of auto theft?

Does anyone else find it hilarious that the quote followed up the first bolded statement with a statistic that, due to its own nature, can't possibly be proven?

I didn't. That quote is from this webpage: http://finallyfeminism101.wo rdpres...e-culture-101/. I posted it because it shows that there is an irrational amount of focus on false rape accusations as a way to undermine attempts to show how common rape is. There are more false accusations of auto theft, but no one would ever worry about that.
I think the most important part is that only 1.6% of accusations are false.

There have been numerous studies attempting to investigate how many rapes are unreported. They don't rely on police statistics, obviously, as if the rapes are unreported then the police don't know. There are other ways to collect information. So no, not impossible.

I think stating that rape is accepted is a B.S. feminist, anti-male statement.

Look. let's get a few things cleared up here; humans are animals, and as animals, some of us are a slave to our whim just as much as a lion or the wonderful, majestic puma might be. The wonderful, wonderful puma. They get in season, and they mate, and I think it's foolhardy to exclude humans from this party; of coursea portion of society are going to just do what they want - it doesn't make it right, but they are, nonetheless, going to do it anyway - and that's whether you know the person or not.

Now there are ways to avoid this. One might be to avoid the dodgy fella that's been eyeing you up all evening. Another way is to stop sexualising yourselves. It's cool that there's all this women's lib stuff, but for real; if you go to a nightclub full of men that have more muscle than brain in nothing but a belt, there's a 80% chance you're going to wake up in the morning feeling considerably worse than you did the night before, scarred forever, and probably asking "why?".

Now...Part of it is society's fault. The fact that admittedly there's been more than a little objectification of women down through the ages hasn't encouraged a mindset that you don't actually need to dress like a whore on the game to have a good time, but it is something that starts with women, and to a lesser degree, men in the case of parenting. Cover up for Christ's sake. Are you seriously telling me you wouldn't rather be dressed smart casually, and to the point, warm at night while you're queueing up to get in the club?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to erode blame away from the men who commit such crimes here, but what I am saying, is display a little common sense and don't maximise the chances of it happening.

Originally Posted by PHLN

61% of rapes remain unreported because the individual know it wasn't rape and won't hold up in court. It was found that 57% of rape cases are false accusation from disgruntle lovers or ex. This correlate with the 85% statistic of rapes resulting in a non-conviction.

Our culture makes it appallingly easy to accuse individuals with rape. In 2010 alone, there was 159 articles related to false accusation. One victim was imprison for 10 years and was later release due to new DNA evidences.

To further reinforce the notion that the so called "rape" was misunderstood, I want to link you guys articles relating to sleep sex victims.

Sexsomia is a condition where the person engage in sexual behavior without their direct controlled. About 34% of adults suffered from this condition. The female participant in these cases report it as rape about 43% of the time, but that isn't true.

Recently, in 2008, it was reported that a non-guilty conviction was upheld due to sexsomia.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=292924

A more recent article is found in 2010 involving a male wrongly convicted of rape.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...12/2818094.htm

Not surprisingly the incident involved heavy alcohols. It does reinforce the fact that in 69% of the cases, the women was completely drunk and mislead the male victim 45% of the time. Or the fact that in 76% of the cases, it was deemed uncontrollable for the aggressor. He couldn't resist so to speak.

The discussion should really be shifty toward the original focus of the thread. Are overly sexual individuals responsible for the actions acted upon them?

It seems more than one person agree.

In this thread alone, there are 35% of replies that agree to this ideology.

The individual "knows" it wasn't rape? No, no, no. This is not why rapes go unreported. Rapes go unreported because it is a personal, traumatizing experience. Because women know that to report it is to open themselves to criticism, to scrutiny, to people like you who will tell them they're "making it up" or "they deserved it" or they didn't take appropriate precautions. Rape is a horrible, painful experience enough on its own. The fact that, after it is over, women have to fend off attacks of false accusation is disgusting.

Our culture makes it "appallingly easy to accuse individuals of rape"? Okay, so you would rather it be harder to report rape? To protect the very small percentage of men who are falsely accused, you want to make it harder for victims of assault to receive help? Are you for real?

I can't even begin to address your so-called statistics about women who "misled" men into raping them. I really, really hope you are trolling, because this level of misogyny is frightening.

Originally Posted by PHLN

...It make no logical sense on why the attacker would choose a victim that can oust them.
...

There's not much logical sense to rape, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
I'm blown away that someone actually posted this.

Originally Posted by Kathy2

There's not much logical sense to rape

Reproduction is not a logical sense to rape?

I will introduce to you then the sociobiological theories in rape. Human, as much as you want to debate, is defined and classified as animal on this planet.

Those that lack fitness qualities that would guarantee them a mate will need to find other means of reproduction. Coercive sex, also known as rape, is one of them.

This act in itself can definitely taint the species genetic pool by allowing those with inferior genes to reproduce. As such it is theorize that humans are taking an aggressive stance against this normal sexual act to protect the quality of DNA.

Agree? Disagree? Who is wearing the T-shirt on April 3rd?

Originally Posted by amyf

The individual "knows" it wasn't rape? No, no, no. This is not why rapes go unreported. Rapes go unreported because it is a personal, traumatizing experience. Because women know that to report it is to open themselves to criticism, to scrutiny, to people like you who will tell them they're "making it up" or "they deserved it" or they didn't take appropriate precautions. Rape is a horrible, painful experience enough on its own. The fact that, after it is over, women have to fend off attacks of false accusation is disgusting.

Whoah...People like you? Come on man, I think you've drunk just a little bit too much of the women's studies kool-aid. That's great and all, it's just that. Well, you're wrong. Are you seriously telling me that when/if you go out wearing a skirt that only just covers your poon, you don't walk into a club thinking "hey. Maybe, just maybe there are guys in here that will think I'm looking for something that isn't dancing." Really? You don't think that.

Western culture is based around this idea of going out on Friday night for a hook up, and while I don't condone violence of any nature outside of a boxing ring, I think it's just a little bit stupid to trust in the better nature of man to keep his dick in his pants and trust that you're going to stay a demure, slutty little virgin that likes to show off your goodies to whatever extreme, by the end of the night. It's also a little offensive that in the same breath where you're essentially berating someone for having preconceptions about women who dress a certain way, you exclude a demographic of men (straight or gay) who get raped.

Our culture makes it "appallingly easy to accuse individuals of rape"? Okay, so you would rather it be harder to report rape? To protect the very small percentage of men who are falsely accused, you want to make it harder for victims of assault to receive help? Are you for real?

Actually, yes. Yes I would. There's an increasing rate of women who cry wolf, manipulate the situation and bring false accusations of rape against men for little more reason than to get what they want. I'd like to see a little more awareness of male rights taken into account so that when women do cry rape, it's for genuine reason, and not just some bitchy little attempt to get even.

I can't even begin to address your so-called statistics about women who "misled" men into raping them. I really, really hope you are trolling, because this level of misogyny is frightening.

The typical feminist response. The minute a man argues a counter case, the words "Misogynist", "Sexist" and "Chauvinist" come out. The fact is that women are most certainly not as pure as the driven snow, and you'd have to be Buddha himself, in his free from all desires of the flesh state or gay to ignore some of the crap girls pull to get attention or free drinks on a Friday night.

Originally Posted by Kathy2

There's not much logical sense to rape, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
I'm blown away that someone actually posted this.

When two dogs screw, is it nature taking its course, or rape. I find it disturbing that humanity in all its glory places itself so high above primal needs and urges.