Originally Posted by michelle

It's sad that my experience as a TA will be tarnished by all of this. I really do love my job, but I hate all the political crap that's come with it.

Let's start a club!!

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I always figured other departments are the same, but when I was given my "Hours of Work" contract, my hours were partitioned into various things....

ie. 50 hours of grading, 30 hours of exam invigilation, etc.

It left about 5 hours a week for 'normal stuff' like office hours, and tutorial prep, in my case...which I presume is standard...essentiall y the things I actually do on a weekly basis.

It doesn't seem right that I'd lose out on money from say, my grading...which I have to do regardless and will spend the full amount of time doing...even if I didn't choose to do it last week.

It's like Justine was saying...am I now free to omit the material covered in the last week? Because I'm certainly not getting paid to help students with it...Or am I allowed to 'not grade 1/13th of the assignments' because I'm no longer getting paid for 1/13th of my marking time?

No...because essentially McMaster's punishing strikers...I oversimplified a bit when I said it's more like 2 weeks, but if you remove grading, invigilation, etc., all of the 'special case stuff' (that's waiting for TAs as soon as they get back from the strike), from the calculation, then it is more like we're not getting paid for 2 weeks.

(I scabbed so this isn't 'personally relevant' to me or anything...it just doesn't feel right to me somehow).


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And don't get me wrong...I'm not saying strikers deserve to be paid for their time. But when they return as employees, they do deserve to be paid for their time...and that includes the full time allocated to for instance, grading (since they still have the exact same amount of grading despite the strike). 1/13th of the wages is far too harsh and mathematically inaccurate...it really doesn't represent the amount of labour that was 'lost' because of the strike.

Originally Posted by JustineA

It was made abundantly clear by both the University and CUPE that our pay would cease. CUPE made no guarantees (that I know of, and I've been quite involved) that anyone would get to make their missed hours up.

Strike pay was available to those who were on the picket lines, as far as I know that was the only money they insinuated would be available to us if we withdrew our labour. I'm sure they were hopeful that the back to work protocol would allow missed wages to be made up, but in no way, shape or form did they guarantee it.

Hmm I can see why it isn't so clear after seeing that. That is a bit problematic.

Again, it is easy for the anti-union hysteria to view this as " they expect to get paid even with they aren't working?"

The issue that CUPE is addressing with this move by the university is that all of the work (marking assignments, essays, etc.) was postponed during the strike. Once the strike was over (regardless of the outcome), TAs and RAs were going to resume their tasks and be paid accordingly.

The issue with this decision is that the TAs and RAs who were on strike are still going to resume their tasks that were postponed... except they arent going to be paid for it. In other words, the university is saying to TAs and RAs who exercised their legal right to strike to each sh*t for going up against them (a strike that was systematically provoked by McMaster admin).

What you're seeing is a text book example of a publically funded institution rapidly transforming towards an alarmingly intensified corporate structure. Once this occurs, students will have no say in what your tuition is going towards... although that is pretty much the case with what's been happening right now.

McMaster admin's motto:

Divide and Conquer... then they are at our mercy.
... they have accomplished their goal. This repulsive act towards the TAs is a vibrant example. Start opening your eyes fellow students.

Originally Posted by ramirez.a

McMaster admin's motto:

Divide and Conquer... then they are at our mercy.
... they have accomplished their goal. This repulsive act towards the TAs is a vibrant example. Start opening your eyes fellow students.

Woah now, that's a bit of a leap in logical progression; a university president is not a CEO with the callous, tactical mindset of a Roman imperator. Keep it in perspective.


Yes, Peter George is fabulously overpaid, but admittedly he did generate substantial funds from fund raising......Ron Joyce Stadium, anyone?


If there should be any reason to be mad with the university, it should be for the fact that Comparative Literature is no longer an offered Major/its own Department at Mac. Take cover, Faculty of Humanities! Incoming slashes!

Originally Posted by Shmowen

Woah now, that's a bit of a leap in logical progression; a university president is not a CEO with the callous, tactical mindset of a Roman imperator. Keep it in perspective.

That's what the hardcore unionists do though... they exaggerate and try to make the employer look like the bad guy.

Just take what they say with a grain of salt... most of it is just empty grandiosity.

Also, To those that are saying that the hours cut is unfair because hours are pooled during the week for marking all at once (see previous posts), how about those classes that canceled assignments or tests all together. From the way I see it, those TAs just got a nice bonus.

Originally Posted by webzn

Also, To those that are saying that the hours cut is unfair because hours are pooled during the week for marking all at once (see previous posts), how about those classes that canceled assignments or tests all together. From the way I see it, those TAs just got a nice bonus.

Great, good for them. That doesn't make it less unfair to others.

Originally Posted by ramirez.a

McMaster admin's motto:

Divide and Conquer... then they are at our mercy.
... they have accomplished their goal. This repulsive act towards the TAs is a vibrant example. Start opening your eyes fellow students.

Is this really necessarily?
Everyone on this thread is calmly discussing the situation, trying to figure out who deserves to be paid what, and what the arrangements were beforehand.

Then you come in with some ridiculous comment like this? Saying these kinds of things takes away any legitimacy you may have had. All you're doing is embarassing yourself.

Originally Posted by ramirez.a

Again, it is easy for the anti-union hysteria to view this as " they expect to get paid even with they aren't working?"

The issue that CUPE is addressing with this move by the university is that all of the work (marking assignments, essays, etc.) was postponed during the strike. Once the strike was over (regardless of the outcome), TAs and RAs were going to resume their tasks and be paid accordingly.

The issue with this decision is that the TAs and RAs who were on strike are still going to resume their tasks that were postponed... except they arent going to be paid for it. In other words, the university is saying to TAs and RAs who exercised their legal right to strike to each sh*t for going up against them (a strike that was systematically provoked by McMaster admin).

What you're seeing is a text book example of a publically funded institution rapidly transforming towards an alarmingly intensified corporate structure. Once this occurs, students will have no say in what your tuition is going towards... although that is pretty much the case with what's been happening right now.

McMaster admin's motto:

Divide and Conquer... then they are at our mercy.
... they have accomplished their goal. This repulsive act towards the TAs is a vibrant example. Start opening your eyes fellow students.

Dude, you're at the wrong school. Berkeley is a few kilometeres south-west of here... perhaps you can get there in time before all the hippies leave campus to join the rest of us in the real world.

Originally Posted by ramirez.a

Again, it is easy for the anti-union hysteria to view this as " they expect to get paid even with they aren't working?"

The issue that CUPE is addressing with this move by the university is that all of the work (marking assignments, essays, etc.) was postponed during the strike. Once the strike was over (regardless of the outcome), TAs and RAs were going to resume their tasks and be paid accordingly.

The issue with this decision is that the TAs and RAs who were on strike are still going to resume their tasks that were postponed... except they arent going to be paid for it. In other words, the university is saying to TAs and RAs who exercised their legal right to strike to each sh*t for going up against them (a strike that was systematically provoked by McMaster admin).

What you're seeing is a text book example of a publically funded institution rapidly transforming towards an alarmingly intensified corporate structure. Once this occurs, students will have no say in what your tuition is going towards... although that is pretty much the case with what's been happening right now.

McMaster admin's motto:

Divide and Conquer... then they are at our mercy.
... they have accomplished their goal. This repulsive act towards the TAs is a vibrant example. Start opening your eyes fellow students.

ramirez,

the problem with you and your pro-union buddies is that you have a fixed mindset that the university admin is the evil force and we the students are duped into supporting them. Please remember that this may or may not be true, no one has the ultimate answer to this because it depends on your own perspectives.

But i think i have to remind you and your friends that you all are a bunch of educated people and for you to ridicule our capacity to think and decide for ourselves (given all the arguments made by all sides), talking as if all of us are stupid enough to fall into the uni admin's trap is ridiculously annoying and downright offensive. Those who opposed the strike and accepted the offer could be just as smart, as aware, as educated (if not more) as those in the opposite fence. Are you trying to play prophet by saying that our opinions on this matter are completely wrond and yours is completely right?

Some comments in the cupe blog even point out about 'the evil power of majority' and seem to think their opinions and views alone are the ultimate truth in this issue. Can't you for one second try to ponder the fact that we the students (and 58% of the union members) had in fact opened our eyes and eventually decided not to support you?

Originally Posted by webzn

Also, To those that are saying that the hours cut is unfair because hours are pooled during the week for marking all at once (see previous posts), how about those classes that canceled assignments or tests all together. From the way I see it, those TAs just got a nice bonus.

And from the way I see it, the other 99% of TAs who still have to grade the assignments of yesterweek have received a nice fork up the ass. (Let's face it, the 'assignments being cancelled' because of one week of striking, are definitely in the minority)

Majority rules? I mean, that's the principle that ended the strike isn't it?

Originally Posted by kleung

CUPE didn't make any guarantees, but in hindsight, they probably shouldn't have suggested that everyone would be paid either.

Very true, but you have to think about it. How many people would be willing to strike if they were only going to receive strike pay compared to how many people would be willing if they were able to receive say 75% of their missed hours. It makes a big difference when you are voting. Like all things what the union and the university were saying always had to be taken with a grain of salt.

The Ottawa transit strike ended shortly after the City withdrew a $3000 signing bonus which would have been paid when the new contract was signed. Thats the thing with striking, it only makes sense to go for as long as you are going to benefit from it. If you strike for two months there is no way the wage increases would make up for you lost wages when that bonus disappears. Yes there are other things that can influence it like pension changes or benefits but most people have to face the reality of living in the now. Thats why I loved when I was part of the teamsters I could get their credit card that would have zero interest/ zero payments if I was ever on strike.

I definitely agree that the people who went on strike should lose the pay for any duties that they didn't complete- missed tutorials, office hours, etc. Unfortunately that amount would vary for each TA, and the amount that McMaster picked as a blanket amount seems to reflect the TAs who missed the most.

And while that sucks for a lot of TAs, I do have to appreciate the irony in a union (which by definition argues for everyone being deserving of the same pay and benefits despite how hard they work) being hurt by their own philosophy.

Originally Posted by JeffB

Very true, but you have to think about it. How many people would be willing to strike if they were only going to receive strike pay compared to how many people would be willing if they were able to receive say 75% of their missed hours. It makes a big difference when you are voting. Like all things what the union and the university were saying always had to be taken with a grain of salt.

..

I agree that most TAs probably wouldn't strike if they thought they were only going to receive strike pay.
BUT that's not a legitimate reason for CUPE acting the way they did. Misleading the TAs into a strike is ridiculously unfair. It's pointless anyway - even if CUPE got what they wanted from the university, those TAs would have found out sooner or later that they weren't going to be paid anything other than strike pay, and they would have been mad.

Originally Posted by ramirez.a

McMaster admin's motto:

Divide and Conquer... then they are at our mercy.
... they have accomplished their goal. This repulsive act towards the TAs is a vibrant example. Start opening your eyes fellow students.

Now THATS hysteria!