Originally Posted by jhan523

In argument, we also pay for MUSC. 90$ per year unless you are taking a lighter course load (3$ per unit).

Not next year though, The MUSC Loan Fees end this year and will go down by a good amount($85ish) next year because the students now only have to contribute to operating costs via the MSU. So in other words a full time student will pay around $80 less of his tuition fees towards MUSC via the MSU. People graduating this year are the last batch in two decades+ who paid for the student center in legacy for future.

Originally Posted by deadpool

Seriously, you guys are talking out of your asses.



Facebook meanwhile keeps a tiny amount of data per person, for a massive amount of people, but doesn't need to keep strict records or anything. Mac does. Each student in the McMaster database will have an immense amount of data in comparison --> marks, courses taken, timetables, bla bla bla.

There's no comparison between Facebook and a University registration system.

WRONG!!!!

Only texts are kept in Mcmaster Servers..

In Facebook, you got "strings" , pictures, videos....

30 000 ppl in Mac

More than a million in Facebook, still with Videos and pictures..

Who's talking outta his ass now tough guy ?

LOL.

Okay, let me explain how you are wrong, and then I'll explain why you are wrong, and finally I'm going to explain why you need to stop thinking you are correct.

1) Photos and videos aren't stored on Facebook's servers. They are stored on CDNs that are separate from Facebook's main system. Have you heard of the concept of "the cloud" ? Well that's what it refers to. A network of servers that is set up to scale based on data demand.

2) Facebook's main servers serve the main site code. They store their information in a database which is a custom built NoSQL based database that is optimized to serve Facebook's purposes, and only Facebook's purposes. McMaster server's are built on ages old code and their databases are old crappy proprietary things.

Granted, it's conjecture, but it's a safe bet to say that the cutting-edge, optimized databases of Facebook which hold on iteration of data are a lot more streamlined, efficient and smaller in size than the monolithic, multi-iterational system, archaic system that the school has.

3) The McMaster database is a little more than your name, favourite movie and status information. It is infinitely more complicated.

---
Now, you are wrong, and an idiot because you think that 3/4 of a year of first-year engineering gives access to a wealth of information that nobody else understands. I on the other hand, know about the system because I've discussed the architecture of the entire system with McMaster's Chief Administrative Officer, as well as lots of people who have worked on the system through UTS.

More, I know a little bit more about how web-served apps are stored and run. AND, I know the Canadian legislation that governs this. AND FINALLY, I do my research before making up shit like "only texts are kept in McMaster servers." and understand the difference between Facebook's custom-built scalable database built for infinite expansive storage, and McMaster's limited system that is served off mainframes from the 80s.

Lastly. Facebook has billions of dollars to pay for R&D to make the best system. While FB may not spend $25 million on servers (...which I'm pretty sure you're wrong on), FB spends millions on R&D and wages to attract the best and brightest.

But then again, thats why you don't wake up day after day with MUGSI and SOLAR having total different functionality. Or why you don't worry about huge security holes which give away your MacID, password, and access to your tuition payments.

---
Oh right. Stop thinking you are always correct, or people might stop thinking you are such a P.I.M.P.

Dumbass.

Originally Posted by deadpool

LOL.

Okay, let me explain how you are wrong, and then I'll explain why you are wrong, and finally I'm going to explain why you need to stop thinking you are correct.

1) Photos and videos aren't stored on Facebook's servers. They are stored on CDNs that are separate from Facebook's main system. Have you heard of the concept of "the cloud" ? Well that's what it refers to. A network of servers that is set up to scale based on data demand.

2) Facebook's main servers serve the main site code. They store their information in a database which is a custom built NoSQL based database that is optimized to serve Facebook's purposes, and only Facebook's purposes. McMaster server's are built on ages old code and their databases are old crappy proprietary things.

Granted, it's conjecture, but it's a safe bet to say that the cutting-edge, optimized databases of Facebook which hold on iteration of data are a lot more streamlined, efficient and smaller in size than the monolithic, multi-iterational system, archaic system that the school has.

3) The McMaster database is a little more than your name, favourite movie and status information. It is infinitely more complicated.

---
Now, you are wrong, and an idiot because you think that 3/4 of a year of first-year engineering gives access to a wealth of information that nobody else understands. I on the other hand, know about the system because I've discussed the architecture of the entire system with McMaster's Chief Administrative Officer, as well as lots of people who have worked on the system through UTS.

More, I know a little bit more about how web-served apps are stored and run. AND, I know the Canadian legislation that governs this. AND FINALLY, I do my research before making up shit like "only texts are kept in McMaster servers." and understand the difference between Facebook's custom-built scalable database built for infinite expansive storage, and McMaster's limited system that is served off mainframes from the 80s.

Lastly. Facebook has billions of dollars to pay for R&D to make the best system. While FB may not spend $25 million on servers (...which I'm pretty sure you're wrong on), FB spends millions on R&D and wages to attract the best and brightest.

But then again, thats why you don't wake up day after day with MUGSI and SOLAR having total different functionality. Or why you don't worry about huge security holes which give away your MacID, password, and access to your tuition payments.

---
Oh right. Stop thinking you are always correct, or people might stop thinking you are such a P.I.M.P.

Dumbass.

For chrissake, Commander is a troll.... don't feed the trolls please

Originally Posted by deadpool

LOL.

Okay, let me explain how you are wrong, and then I'll explain why you are wrong, and finally I'm going to explain why you need to stop thinking you are correct.

1) Photos and videos aren't stored on Facebook's servers. They are stored on CDNs that are separate from Facebook's main system. Have you heard of the concept of "the cloud" ? Well that's what it refers to. A network of servers that is set up to scale based on data demand.

And who pays for it, i.e who pays for CDNs ???

I know CDN are effective to increase bandwith..

Again congrats for knowing all that shit...

Do you also know how tiny little electrons movements allow all this information to be transfered too ? Why don't you explain me the "hardware" part of the servers... What kind of circuits, chips and so on.. ?

You're argument and mine don't hold since none of us actually showed the math. Show the numbers if you think you're so smart.

Also why you are the idiot...

"There's no comparison between Facebook and a University registration system."

You've proved yourself wrong...

"More, I know a little bit more about how web-served apps are stored and run. AND, I know the Canadian legislation that governs this. AND FINALLY, I do my research before making up shit like "only texts are kept in McMaster servers." and understand the difference between Facebook's custom-built scalable database built for infinite expansive storage, and McMaster's limited system that is served off mainframes from the 80s."

So much logical fallacy right there... Circulus in Probando

"I know more about this therefore I'm right, I spoke to this guy therefore I'm right (assuming to whoever you spoke to didn't lie)..."

petitio principii

Commander, at this point I'm not sure if you are serious or as others say "trolling" for the sake of it. I am strongly feeling the latter might be true considering that according to your implication Multiple sources within the McMaster Administration lied and fabricated information about this project & its costs in the 2010/2011 budget, the entire board of governors approved that figure without critique and no one had your skills to figure out how this figure is ridiculous since "facebook does it for cheaper".

That figure is based directly on the estimates of similar systems renewals at other universities (I suppose they were ALL lying as well?)and various corporations in the private industry with such a large scale operation(McMaster as an organization is utterly massive).

Originally Posted by deadpool

Seriously, you guys are talking out of your asses.

This costs a ton because it requires a ton of stuff. For one, unlike Facebook, a University has a lot of hoops to jump through because of legal requirements. Facebook is a random site, which doesn't deal with sensitive information (well, unless you add that information).

SO, what Mac needs to do is build an infrastructure that is going to last 20+ years which includes proper servers to handle the data that they collect. This includes personal information including SIN numbers, University marks, and other records that can't see the light of day. It also means that they need to build a system that accommodates all the information of the past as well, because they are legally obliged to keep information for 55 years.

Facebook meanwhile keeps a tiny amount of data per person, for a massive amount of people, but doesn't need to keep strict records or anything. Mac does. Each student in the McMaster database will have an immense amount of data in comparison --> marks, courses taken, timetables, bla bla bla.

There's no comparison between Facebook and a University registration system.

Speaking of someone talking out of his ass.

Facebook has over 500 million active members; during peak hours, McMaster has to support a few thousand.
No idea why you are comparing legal requirements, you must have never used facebook, since the amount of sensitive information shared is pretty astronomical.

And in the end, what you are really saying is that they need a decent encryption system, right? Do they have to invent one from the ground up? No. This should barely be functioned into the budget.

In terms of data, I hope you are kidding. You mentioned marks, courses, timetables. Anything else you'd like to add to that? Because that is just a few ones and zeros. And this is not information that is constantly changing. I guarantee facebook uses more infrastructure to support status updates in a single day than mac has on the types of records you have mentioned throughout a decade. And this is ignoring the fact that facebook stores billions of pictures and videos.

At the end of the day, I don't know about the logistics behind a huge IT shift in a university setting. And judging from your post, neither do you. I just like bashing down a bad argument when I see one.

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

the entire board of governors approved that figure without critique and no one had your skills to figure out how this figure is ridiculous since "facebook does it for cheaper".

That figure is based directly on the estimates of similar systems renewals at other universities (I suppose they were ALL lying as well?)and various corporations in the private industry with such a large scale operation(McMaster as an organization is utterly massive).

Again with the circular logic...

"They said this and that, they must be right..."

They ARE NOT Students.. They can lie just like the government lie when it comes to a raise in taxes.

They aren't paying anything from their pocket. We are. Plus not a lot of Mac Students get to read this shit, so that's why you don't much criticism/skepticism.

I am a Student of Reality. Show me the numbers. Show me the financial calculations and I will believe if it's worth it or not. Show me stats compared with other campuses...

Originally Posted by Commander

Again with the circular logic...

"They said this and that, they must be right..."

They ARE NOT Students.. They can lie just like the government lie when it comes to a raise in taxes.

They aren't paying anything from their pocket. We are. Plus not a lot of Mac Students get to read this shit, so that's why you don't much criticism/skepticism.

I am a Student of Reality. Show me the numbers. Show me the financial calculations and I will believe if it's worth it or not. Show me stats compared with other campuses...

Compared to YOUR "I say it it must be right" logic?

Where are YOUR numbers, data, and statistics?

Originally Posted by lawleypop

Compared to YOUR "I say it it must be right" logic?

Where are YOUR numbers, data, and statistics?

Please, someone with your intellect shouldn't bother trying to grasp on what is higher and more complex.

I gave statistics. Roughly 30 000 people at Mac, at least 1 million in Facebook...

Now if you you had some "logic", you will try and prove these stats wrong or try show that they have no link with the argument at hand.

Originally Posted by Commander

Please, someone with your intellect shouldn't bother trying to grasp on what is higher and more complex.

I gave statistics. Roughly 30 000 people at Mac, at least 1 million in Facebook...

Now if you you had some "logic", you will try and prove these stats wrong or try show that they have no link with the argument at hand.

Facebook has over 500 million active members;
versus 1 million.

k.

Originally Posted by Commander

I gave statistics. Roughly 30 000 people at Mac, at least 1 million in Facebook...

I put it in bold for you cheri pop....

Notice two words :"at least"

Originally Posted by Sxefmachine

I put it in bold for you cheri pop....

Notice two words :"at least"

Really, you don't think there's a huge discrepancy between his 1mil and the other user's 500mil? Okay then.

If he wants to ask for real numbers and data, that's fine. But when he acts like his pulled-out-of-his-ass numbers are legitimate data, then I think that's a little idiotic.

Originally Posted by lawleypop

Really, you don't think there's a huge discrepancy between his 1mil and the other user's 500mil? Okay then.

If he wants to ask for real numbers and data, that's fine. But when he acts like his pulled-out-of-his-ass numbers are legitimate data, then I think that's a little idiotic.

That's because I was comparing it to McMaster's population which is around 30 000 people.

That's why I used at least 1 million. It wouldn't matter if I said 5 milion or 100 milion because 1 million is still much more than 30 000.

Grade 4 Math...

33.333333333333333333 (it goes on ) people use facebook per mcmaster student at the least.

I could have used the real number of Facebook users (which changes with time). But that's why I used the word "at least". Meaning I was using a minimum to prove a point.

AND YOU ARE WRONG. There isn't exactly 500 million Facebook users. 500 million is what you get after rounding up the exact number which changes with time....