Originally Posted by resh.jyoti

I don't agree at all. We pay, and we pay to go to Mac - NOT Harvard. We're not asking for total perfection here, just a decent amount of student satisfaction. The problem is that we're not getting that decent amount.

Just because our education's subsidized doesn't mean that Mac has less money to work with - the other $45, 000 or whatever comes from the government. So Mac has all the money it needs to do whatever they want. These issues arise because what they do with that money has nothing to do with students - it all has to do with professor's research. Because of this, students are upset. If there were no issues such as MUGSI and SOLAR to be taken care of, go ahead and use the money where you have to, Mac, but if WE're paying for things that SHOULD be fixed and they're not, we're going to get upset.

It's the same thing with politicians taking people's tax dollars and putting them towards making a new CN Tower (hypothetically), when highways are collapsing and there are homeless people on the street. Sure, Toronto will get a better rep by having 2 tall towers and a new attraction, but the people that live in Toronto are not getting what they paid for!

The fact that there are students this upset about the way things are going says that there needs to be change. I swear, I'll bet money that this has been the same (ie. Mac's server wherever it is, MUGSI, SOLAR, user limits and the system of signing up for courses with locked seats etc.) since before I was born, or maybe a little after. Considering that before I was born TVs were about as fat as a pregnant woman and/or still used antennas tells me that Mac needs to update their technology.

I know for a fact that UTM doesn't remotely have any of these issues. Why? It's NEWER and smaller. They have CATERED to their enrollment numbers with their system. Before going into first-year I was literally behind all 5 of my older cousins while they logged on to their student portals and signed up for courses at their alloted times. They are all different years, in different fields, and go to UTS, UTM, UofT, Ryerson and Queens. There were no issues whatsoever. If there was, they called and it got fixed within 2 days, even in peak time.

I thought that Mac would be the same. It is NOT. That is the problem. Even older universities like Queens and UofT have better student satisfaction than we do in this aspect.

That's all we're asking for. We're not saying that MAC should be re-hauled, that it is a shit university and we should never have gone here. We just want to not spend HOURS a DAY on MUGSI and SOLAR to get a course. We want to be challenged by the material of the course, not the effort and time it takes to register for it. If we need a course for a minor, we should get some help in getting it. If we rate a professor as horrible, we expect that they shouldn't be allowed to teach that course again. And if we get new systems online, we expect it to be tested out before we have to use it. This is not rocket-science.

These are simple things. They all have to do with the student experience - which is why Mac doesn't care about them. If they did, MUGSI and SOLAR and all the servers would have been re-hauled by Chad already.

WELL SAID!

I applaud you for this.

Okay, I think you guys need to calm down. Yes, student registration and course selection is shit, but it doesn't necessarily mean that McMaster as a whole isn't a good university. I don't regret going to McMaster at all, and there are so many things that I love about it that when it comes down to it, I'm only really tearing my hair out for a week during the year and that's it. Yes, some professors are better/worse than others, but guess what? It's the same at any university in Canada and around the world. All I know is that, at the end of the day, I'll be getting my bachelors degree from a reputable university and I certainly won't have complaints then.

Originally Posted by Cassanova

WELL SAID!

I applaud you for this.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by feonateresa

Okay, I think you guys need to calm down. Yes, student registration and course selection is shit, but it doesn't necessarily mean that McMaster as a whole isn't a good university. I don't regret going to McMaster at all, and there are so many things that I love about it that when it comes down to it, I'm only really tearing my hair out for a week during the year and that's it. Yes, some professors are better/worse than others, but guess what? It's the same at any university in Canada and around the world. All I know is that, at the end of the day, I'll be getting my bachelors degree from a reputable university and I certainly won't have complaints then.

Feona, I feel the same way, and I never said that Mac isn't a good university (I actually said the opposite). I'm just frustrated with the way things like professors, reviews of courses and student registration is handled because it should not be this way. It seems like they collect information about courses and professors every year, but they don't DO anything with it. How a course is managed and what prof is there doesn't effect them, it affects US. It's like betting someone else's life on heads or tails - you can do what you want because at the end of the day, you'll still be alive.

This only dawned on me a week ago, because I was actually faced with having only two of my required courses to get into a program and because I'm shadowing I wouldn't get a seat in the third. I was considering going to UTM and really in my heart I didn't WANT to. I love Mac. That's why I'm upset, I want it to be better, I can SEE it can be better, and it's not, and there's nothing I can do. The fact that it's been this way for years doesn't justify the way it is, just means that it needs to be changed.

It makes me upset that something I love doesn't have my best interest at heart.

Originally Posted by BluandExile

OMG your soooo kewllll.

Lets all crack chemistry and physics jokes tee hee.

shut up.

Big words coming from a guy who's too ***** to put his real name on MI.

But I lol'd at the 'shut up' regardless.

As for the other points from Cassanova / Reshmee:

"Why are we even looking at Harvard?"
I didn't want to bring that up. But everyone else seems to love this rating system that says we're in the top 100 universities, so let's use universities in that list for comparison. You don't feel the need to bring up Harvard? Then you shouldn't feel the need to say we're in the top 100 universities.

And of course it boils down to money money money. You expect the university to cater to your every need without regard for money, when the only reason you're going to university is to get a degree so you can get a better job which, wait for it - GIVES YOU MORE MONEY.

Don't even come up with this 'I go to university to become educated' crap - 90% of the stuff you learn you won't ever use in your job or in your life. In fact, the only things you MAY end up using are things like lab skills, or practical applications (e.g., engineering). Don't tell me that in your job 15 years from now it's going to be imperative that you remember both techniques of integration AND the citric acid cycle. You're going to need to know one subject, not everything in Life Science. This holds less true for things like Biochem, where most of the things you learn are based on one field.

So, if university isn't about what you learn, then it should be about learning how to learn, right?!?!1?1? You should have learned how to study independently at a university level by grade 11 or 12. If you were sitting around all day 'memorizing' in high school and came to university unprepared that's not my problem.

I had the same 'problems' you had, I had ELM too. I've had to choose my courses through SOLAR and MUGSI. I didn't get into courses that I need. The only difference is, I'm not complaining on a forum that unfortunately will not accomplish anything.

You're complaining your money isn't getting you the service you want. I get it. Everyone else gets it too. But the point is, you either let the university know (hint: it won't be done through MI) and suck it up and deal with it while they spend 5 years fixing it, or you switch schools. It's that simple.

If you go to Home Depot, and find their products are good but their service is terrible, what do you do? You tell the manager, or you stop going there, or you deal with the crappy service by researching yourself and doing your own work. You don't go home and complain to the kids.

Originally Posted by Alchemist11

As for the other points from Cassanova / Reshmee:

"Why are we even looking at Harvard?"
I didn't want to bring that up. But everyone else seems to love this rating system that says we're in the top 100 universities, so let's use universities in that list for comparison. You don't feel the need to bring up Harvard? Then you shouldn't feel the need to say we're in the top 100 universities.

And of course it boils down to money money money. You expect the university to cater to your every need without regard for money, when the only reason you're going to university is to get a degree so you can get a better job which, wait for it - GIVES YOU MORE MONEY.

Don't even come up with this 'I go to university to become educated' crap - 90% of the stuff you learn you won't ever use in your job or in your life. In fact, the only things you MAY end up using are things like lab skills, or practical applications (e.g., engineering). Don't tell me that in your job 15 years from now it's going to be imperative that you remember both techniques of integration AND the citric acid cycle. You're going to need to know one subject, not everything in Life Science. This holds less true for things like Biochem, where most of the things you learn are based on one field.

So, if university isn't about what you learn, then it should be about learning how to learn, right?!?!1?1? You should have learned how to study independently at a university level by grade 11 or 12. If you were sitting around all day 'memorizing' in high school and came to university unprepared that's not my problem.

I had the same 'problems' you had, I had ELM too. I've had to choose my courses through SOLAR and MUGSI. I didn't get into courses that I need. The only difference is, I'm not complaining on a forum that unfortunately will not accomplish anything.

You're complaining your money isn't getting you the service you want. I get it. Everyone else gets it too. But the point is, you either let the university know (hint: it won't be done through MI) and suck it up and deal with it while they spend 5 years fixing it, or you switch schools. It's that simple.

If you go to Home Depot, and find their products are good but their service is terrible, what do you do? You tell the manager, or you stop going there, or you deal with the crappy service by researching yourself and doing your own work. You don't go home and complain to the kids.

1) I didnt say anything about the top 100 list. That list is way to ambiguous to even take into regard. I only object to comparisons against Harvard because it's completely out of Mac's league, it would be more beneficial to have a comparison with universities within Ontario.

2) I DO NOT expect my every need to be catered to. You never get that in life, and it's just pointless, naive and pompous to expect that. I'm just asking for some basic things that other universities seem to have established for a long time, so why can't ours?

3) I don't know what to say about your giant paragraph rant on the point of university. I really don't know where it came from, because I didn't say anything on that, so I'll just leave that alone...

4) I get what you're saying about complaining here. I'm just upset and concerned, like everyone else, and think that we should have a discussion about it. It would help to complain to the university, I completely agree, but can you find where, exactly I'm supposed to do that? I've looked, and I've had family ask where to do so after watching me on this freaking computer monitoring SOLAR for my life. I can't find it - doesn't that tell you something? Any help is appreciated .

I think you're getting way too defensive about it, you're attacking people (I don't object to the BluExile guy, he's just being rude) and I just have some issues that I want to discuss, that's all. I'm just looking for different opinions.

Originally Posted by D-Student

I heard that we're done with ELM now too, but that's just a rumor.

It's not a rumour...there were several announcements posted on the Daily News as well as the ELM site itself, we're switching from Blackboard to Desire2Learn, which is based in Kitchener/Waterloo area. They held a contest to name the new system back in April...not sure what they picked, though.

The new name is Avenue to Learn or something like that.

Originally Posted by feonateresa

The new name is Avenue to Learn or something like that.

*crosses fingers* Hope it's functional!

Originally Posted by resh.jyoti

1) I didnt say anything about the top 100 list. That list is way to ambiguous to even take into regard. I only object to comparisons against Harvard because it's completely out of Mac's league, it would be more beneficial to have a comparison with universities within Ontario.

2) I DO NOT expect my every need to be catered to. You never get that in life, and it's just pointless, naive and pompous to expect that. I'm just asking for some basic things that other universities seem to have established for a long time, so why can't ours?

3) I don't know what to say about your giant paragraph rant on the point of university. I really don't know where it came from, because I didn't say anything on that, so I'll just leave that alone...

4) I get what you're saying about complaining here. I'm just upset and concerned, like everyone else, and think that we should have a discussion about it. It would help to complain to the university, I completely agree, but can you find where, exactly I'm supposed to do that? I've looked, and I've had family ask where to do so after watching me on this freaking computer monitoring SOLAR for my life. I can't find it - doesn't that tell you something? Any help is appreciated .

I think you're getting way too defensive about it, you're attacking people (I don't object to the BluExile guy, he's just being rude) and I just have some issues that I want to discuss, that's all. I'm just looking for different opinions.

Lol sorry, to be honest most of that wasn't for you. Me and Cassanova were discussing it before, and though you added some good points I think most of what I said was in response to him.

Originally Posted by Alchemist11

Lol sorry, to be honest most of that wasn't for you. Me and Cassanova were discussing it before, and though you added some good points I think most of what I said was in response to him.

OHHHH okay, LOL I was really confused. I was like, what did I do?
That's okay then, apology accepted

Originally Posted by nerual

Blackboard was going to stop supporting WebCT in favour of supporting ELM, so that opened up a whole host of security issues, and if anything went wrong, Blackboard wouldn't do anything to fix it, which could have potentially resulted in worse problems than ELM did. Also, WebCT was a nightmare from the prof's side of things, and most of them hated it.

Also, they did test out ELM during summer school last year, but there's just not the same number of people trying to access it as there is in Sept, so it didn't appear to have any problems...but at least they tried. How else could McMaster have 'tested' it, since the problem was in the large numbers of people trying to access it? Blackboard could have tested it better before selling their product, but that isn't Mac's fault.

Don't get a math degree from mcmaster - they obviously can't count...

-SOLAR/MUGSI's student limit is too low
-Time limit for MUGSI is too long
-Class seats are too low
-ELM tested with a small group of people


But to chime in on the wonderfully entertaining discussion, I Mac needs to get its act together. Its ridiculous that we have to fight for weeks, months, to get into courses. I'm not saying they're should be no competition at all, but really, why do I have to spend two or three hours a day checking over and over again for one of eight courses to fill a slot in my timetable? Eight courses, and I can't get into a single one. I'm basically bending over backwards to accomodate them and I'm still screwed.

ELM was unacceptable too, but I hear they're suing them, and they're getting rid of it, so I suppose they almost redeemed themselves over it (I'd be nice to see some compensation, students were the ones that had to fight with it everyday). This is a good university, able to compete with McGill and Toronto. It should be doing better with stupid admin things like courses and whatever ELM was.

I mentioned this earlier in jest, but I'm being completely serious when I say having competent student representation could have prevented all MUGSI and SOLAR issues. The MSU and the SRA are completely useless, and their members should be ashamed of themselves.

Originally Posted by Souldier

I mentioned this earlier in jest, but I'm being completely serious when I say having competent student representation could have prevented all MUGSI and SOLAR issues. The MSU and the SRA are completely useless, and their members should be ashamed of themselves.

I suggest ritual suicide...

Originally Posted by jhan523

Stats 2B03 is a Level III course, it is labeled as a Level II course because the content difficult is that for Level II. But McMaster fully intends it to be a course taken in Level III, not II.

I don't know where you heard that from but I talked to kathy Macintosh and the fact is that it is a degree requirement and seats should be available for those who want to take it whenever...period. The problem has since been resolved.

Originally Posted by salimak

I don't know where you heard that from but I talked to kathy Macintosh and the fact is that it is a degree requirement and seats should be available for those who want to take it whenever...period. The problem has since been resolved.

Uh no it hasn't. Tons of people can't get in still. Its Full even if it is required.