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06-16-2010 at 12:33 PM
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#256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodnews.inc
Okay, if you assess all the universities in the world, I don't think our web servers put us over the top. I believe it's our research that really seals the deal. That and I'm guessing, but this is just a guess cuase it's late enough and I'm tired, how many students we attract and how many graduates we produce. While unfair or inadequate professors do make the university experience a lot more painful because they add that little bit of "oomph" to sour things as opposed to just keeping things a bit bland, which most people don't mind..we actually have professors who do research. Consider that some of these schools going into these "rankings"...at least some, aren't hiring professors, don't have labs, are experiencing investigations into the conduct of the administration etc. Things like harassment, lawsuits etc also probably factor in if we're looking at the large scheme of things. To put it concisely, people at Time don't really give a damn whether we got on MUGSI or not. They WOULD care if the professors striked, or that CUPE strike carried on for ages. When you picked Mac, and honestly now, if I told you "Man, course selection is going to be a pain in the ass and you're going to have a few awful professors" would you change your decision to go here? If you would, I think your assessment of what "good quality education" is, may be a pleasant hope, it is not a reasonable expectation. Consider Harvard. I think most of us can say, hands down, unless you get those "CANADA/ENGLAND/IRELAND/OTHER COUNTRY FTW MAN" or "PRINCETON ALL THE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY YEAH" kids chiming in, that Harvard is pretty "up there". Do you know they are no longer accepting university transfer students because of limited residence spaces? People will STILL want to go to Harvard because as far as universities go, that's "one of the best".
It's like if I give you a pile of good, slightly bruised fruit and asked you to pick one. And you tell me that you saw this delicious apple that is made of gold. Well that's just dandy but that's not one of your choices. And we can "but what" all night long but the issue still stands. Until one of us creates a university or works toward implementing real changes like Huzaifa over there, complaining about it is pretty much equivalent to walking into a health clinic in the States and complaining that your insurance ONLY covers dental and health and drugs but not eyeglasses. It accomplishes nothing and you have a completely bitter perspective toward what you are experiencing. And it's not going to change a damn thing btw. University infrastructure, as we've all seen, takes a long time to work with. Quite frankly, we have it good as is, and compared to the rest of the world, if we're complaining about air conditioned classes, professors who show up and at least attempt to do their job, decent courses, HAVING textbooks etc...it's just really ignorant.
If you really feel so passionate that you emphasize these points on a continual basis, run in an election and start making the changes you want to see.
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There are different rankings of universities out there. Based on research alone McMaster has some really innovating things but if you do a ratings on how Students find it and how student friendly it is... McMaster would suffer. I honestly do regret my decision coming here. I should have looked into it more before I made my decision on where to go.
All we can do is complain about it. Who is really going to listen? Bombarding people with email about ELM isn't going to do anything. A rally isn't going to make much a difference except cause a nuisance. I know that the MSU presidents have been trying, SRA has been voicing concerns. But thats it. The Big Bosses just don't give a damn. They know what they have works for them and they would rather use funding and efforts elsewhere.
McMaster does provide an excellent place to learn, its just that its lacking because it could be so much better. And yes we are fortunate because we can afford to go to university. But I'm PAYING well earned money to receive an education and I expect to be treated fairly. I'd like my money to be spent went and used towards improving the university. I wouldn't be complaining if I wasn't paying thousands of dollars, but the fact is we pay thousands and we can't get the courses we want, we struggle to get into classes, we spend hours trying to get on to MUGSI, & ELM.
I still have yet to get a clear answer on why even needed to move on from WebCT to ELM. WebCT was just fine, I really, really liked it. Yet someone decided to make the change without even trying to test out ELM.
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C. Smith
Honours Life Science - Second Year
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06-16-2010 at 12:34 PM
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#257
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McMaster is a business - they are primarily concerned about receiving there tuition payments. If they show interest in acquiring new and innovative faculty members - it's so they can in turn maintain their rep, draw in new students, and receive their tuition payments. From an economic standpoint, there is really no benefit to addressing students who do not get into their desired courses. I'm sure they have somebody, somewhere crunching all the numbers - and if the change doesn't bring in any more money, the change won't happen.
Last edited by D-Student : 06-16-2010 at 12:38 PM.
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06-16-2010 at 12:37 PM
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#258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhan523
The fact that Dr. Jacobs uses an example to teach the material makes him a good prof. I don't know about you, but throughout my entire education career I have learned through examples. I'm sure if Dr. Jacobs didn't use the influenza virus as an example, a lot of people wouldn't be able to take in the theory.
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I actually found the virus thing kind of interesting. But he puts to much focus onto it that for a first year class its too much to focus on. For the longest time everything was about the virus and so many heavily detailed images on his slides about how the virus does this and that. When it comes to test time you struggle.
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C. Smith
Honours Life Science - Second Year
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06-16-2010 at 12:39 PM
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#259
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In the end everything comes down to Money.
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C. Smith
Honours Life Science - Second Year
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06-16-2010 at 12:42 PM
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#260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassanova
In the end everything comes down to Money.
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As it always does.
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06-16-2010 at 12:44 PM
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#261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassanova
I actually found the virus thing kind of interesting. But he puts to much focus onto it that for a first year class its too much to focus on. For the longest time everything was about the virus and so many heavily detailed images on his slides about how the virus does this and that. When it comes to test time you struggle.
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I don't remember it being that complicated... Infection (which is like 3 steps), replication (I found was the most complicated part) and budding (Like 1 step). If you know this process then you also know the proteins and their functions.
__________________
Jeremy Han
McMaster Alumni - Honours Molecular Biology and Genetics
Pennsylvania College of Optometry at Salus University Third Year - Doctor of Optometry
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06-16-2010 at 12:44 PM
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#262
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Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassanova
I actually found the virus thing kind of interesting. But he puts to much focus onto it that for a first year class its too much to focus on. For the longest time everything was about the virus and so many heavily detailed images on his slides about how the virus does this and that. When it comes to test time you struggle.
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I found that part of the class the best. I don't remember anything else we learned..
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06-16-2010 at 01:52 PM
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#263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluandExile
shut up.
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Lols
At least Cassanova, Goodnews, others and myself are TRYING to have a discussion. I'd like to hear your opinions on this matter- actually, don't bother, I have a feeling they'd be shallower than a thin slit [yess physics jokes] and fall flatter than a benzene ring [yess chemistry jokes].
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06-16-2010 at 01:54 PM
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#264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassanova
There are different rankings of universities out there. Based on research alone McMaster has some really innovating things but if you do a ratings on how Students find it and how student friendly it is... McMaster would suffer. I honestly do regret my decision coming here. I should have looked into it more before I made my decision on where to go.
All we can do is complain about it. Who is really going to listen? Bombarding people with email about ELM isn't going to do anything. A rally isn't going to make much a difference except cause a nuisance. I know that the MSU presidents have been trying, SRA has been voicing concerns. But thats it. The Big Bosses just don't give a damn. They know what they have works for them and they would rather use funding and efforts elsewhere.
McMaster does provide an excellent place to learn, its just that its lacking because it could be so much better. And yes we are fortunate because we can afford to go to university. But I'm PAYING well earned money to receive an education and I expect to be treated fairly. I'd like my money to be spent went and used towards improving the university. I wouldn't be complaining if I wasn't paying thousands of dollars, but the fact is we pay thousands and we can't get the courses we want, we struggle to get into classes, we spend hours trying to get on to MUGSI, & ELM.
I still have yet to get a clear answer on why even needed to move on from WebCT to ELM. WebCT was just fine, I really, really liked it. Yet someone decided to make the change without even trying to test out ELM.
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Well, if we're using this 'ratings' system, for which I still have no idea how they're ranked, then let's look at Harvard. You know why Harvard is number 1 and we're not? They have less students, therefore more resources devoted to each, AND TUITION COSTS ABOUT $50,000/year (coincidentally my brother's tuition). You're paying your good hard earned dollars, but in the grand scheme of things not very many. If you're a hardworking intelligent guy you can get a job that pays >$50,000 a year, right? So all this money you're paying now will become worth it soon. Now, it's different going to Harvard, where you may have to pay $200,000 before you can get a job.
In other words, you want the service, you have to pay real money.
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06-16-2010 at 02:14 PM
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#265
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Account Locked
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist11
Lols
At least Cassanova, Goodnews, others and myself are TRYING to have a discussion. I'd like to hear your opinions on this matter- actually, don't bother, I have a feeling they'd be shallower than a thin slit [yess physics jokes] and fall flatter than a benzene ring [yess chemistry jokes].
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OMG your soooo kewllll.
Lets all crack chemistry and physics jokes tee hee.
shut up.
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06-16-2010 at 02:22 PM
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#266
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist11
Well, if we're using this 'ratings' system, for which I still have no idea how they're ranked, then let's look at Harvard. You know why Harvard is number 1 and we're not? They have less students, therefore more resources devoted to each, AND TUITION COSTS ABOUT $50,000/year (coincidentally my brother's tuition). You're paying your good hard earned dollars, but in the grand scheme of things not very many. If you're a hardworking intelligent guy you can get a job that pays >$50,000 a year, right? So all this money you're paying now will become worth it soon. Now, it's different going to Harvard, where you may have to pay $200,000 before you can get a job.
In other words, you want the service, you have to pay real money.
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Money is money. Harvard is Harvard. McMaster can not ever compete with something like that. The closest university in Canada to Harvard is McGill. Why are we even looking at Harvard? And we have more students = more tuition = more money. But McMaster should be able to account for the thousands of students too or else whats the point of coming here...
Its money money money.
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C. Smith
Honours Life Science - Second Year
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06-16-2010 at 02:27 PM
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#267
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Account Disabled by User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassanova
I still have yet to get a clear answer on why even needed to move on from WebCT to ELM. WebCT was just fine, I really, really liked it. Yet someone decided to make the change without even trying to test out ELM.
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Blackboard was going to stop supporting WebCT in favour of supporting ELM, so that opened up a whole host of security issues, and if anything went wrong, Blackboard wouldn't do anything to fix it, which could have potentially resulted in worse problems than ELM did. Also, WebCT was a nightmare from the prof's side of things, and most of them hated it.
Also, they did test out ELM during summer school last year, but there's just not the same number of people trying to access it as there is in Sept, so it didn't appear to have any problems...but at least they tried. How else could McMaster have 'tested' it, since the problem was in the large numbers of people trying to access it? Blackboard could have tested it better before selling their product, but that isn't Mac's fault.
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06-16-2010 at 02:32 PM
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#268
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I heard that we're done with ELM now too, but that's just a rumor.
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"Toast u know something... sometimes u are the meanest person on this website... u are such a jerk..."
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06-16-2010 at 02:36 PM
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#269
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist11
Well, if we're using this 'ratings' system, for which I still have no idea how they're ranked, then let's look at Harvard. You know why Harvard is number 1 and we're not? They have less students, therefore more resources devoted to each, AND TUITION COSTS ABOUT $50,000/year (coincidentally my brother's tuition). You're paying your good hard earned dollars, but in the grand scheme of things not very many. If you're a hardworking intelligent guy you can get a job that pays >$50,000 a year, right? So all this money you're paying now will become worth it soon. Now, it's different going to Harvard, where you may have to pay $200,000 before you can get a job.
In other words, you want the service, you have to pay real money.
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I don't agree at all. We pay, and we pay to go to Mac - NOT Harvard. We're not asking for total perfection here, just a decent amount of student satisfaction. The problem is that we're not getting that decent amount.
Just because our education's subsidized doesn't mean that Mac has less money to work with - the other $45, 000 or whatever comes from the government. So Mac has all the money it needs to do whatever they want. These issues arise because what they do with that money has nothing to do with students - it all has to do with professor's research. Because of this, students are upset. If there were no issues such as MUGSI and SOLAR to be taken care of, go ahead and use the money where you have to, Mac, but if WE're paying for things that SHOULD be fixed and they're not, we're going to get upset.
It's the same thing with politicians taking people's tax dollars and putting them towards making a new CN Tower (hypothetically), when highways are collapsing and there are homeless people on the street. Sure, Toronto will get a better rep by having 2 tall towers and a new attraction, but the people that live in Toronto are not getting what they paid for!
The fact that there are students this upset about the way things are going says that there needs to be change. I swear, I'll bet money that this has been the same (ie. Mac's server wherever it is, MUGSI, SOLAR, user limits and the system of signing up for courses with locked seats etc.) since before I was born, or maybe a little after. Considering that before I was born TVs were about as fat as a pregnant woman and/or still used antennas tells me that Mac needs to update their technology.
I know for a fact that UTM doesn't remotely have any of these issues. Why? It's NEWER and smaller. They have CATERED to their enrollment numbers with their system. Before going into first-year I was literally behind all 5 of my older cousins while they logged on to their student portals and signed up for courses at their alloted times. They are all different years, in different fields, and go to UTS, UTM, UofT, Ryerson and Queens. There were no issues whatsoever. If there was, they called and it got fixed within 2 days, even in peak time.
I thought that Mac would be the same. It is NOT. That is the problem. Even older universities like Queens and UofT have better student satisfaction than we do in this aspect.
That's all we're asking for. We're not saying that MAC should be re-hauled, that it is a shit university and we should never have gone here. We just want to not spend HOURS a DAY on MUGSI and SOLAR to get a course. We want to be challenged by the material of the course, not the effort and time it takes to register for it. If we need a course for a minor, we should get some help in getting it. If we rate a professor as horrible, we expect that they shouldn't be allowed to teach that course again. And if we get new systems online, we expect it to be tested out before we have to use it. This is not rocket-science.
These are simple things. They all have to do with the student experience - which is why Mac doesn't care about them. If they did, MUGSI and SOLAR and all the servers would have been re-hauled by Chad already.
__________________
Reshmee Prakash; H. Life Sciences V, 2013-2014
Last edited by resh.jyoti : 06-16-2010 at 02:41 PM.
Cassanova
says thanks to resh.jyoti for this post.
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06-16-2010 at 02:49 PM
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#270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by resh.jyoti
I don't agree at all. We pay, and we pay to go to Mac - NOT Harvard. We're not asking for total perfection here, just a decent amount of student satisfaction. The problem is that we're not getting that decent amount.
Just because our education's subsidized doesn't mean that Mac has less money to work with - the other $45, 000 or whatever comes from the government. So Mac has all the money it needs to do whatever they want. These issues arise because what they do with that money has nothing to do with students - it all has to do with professor's research. Because of this, students are upset. If there were no issues such as MUGSI and SOLAR to be taken care of, go ahead and use the money where you have to, Mac, but if WE're paying for things that SHOULD be fixed and they're not, we're going to get upset.
It's the same thing with politicians taking people's tax dollars and putting them towards making a new CN Tower (hypothetically), when highways are collapsing and there are homeless people on the street. Sure, Toronto will get a better rep by having 2 tall towers and a new attraction, but the people that live in Toronto are not getting what they paid for!
The fact that there are students this upset about the way things are going says that there needs to be change. I swear, I'll bet money that this has been the same (ie. Mac's server wherever it is, MUGSI, SOLAR, user limits and the system of signing up for courses with locked seats etc.) since before I was born, or maybe a little after. Considering that before I was born TVs were about as fat as a pregnant woman and/or still used antennas tells me that Mac needs to update their technology.
I know for a fact that UTM doesn't remotely have any of these issues. Why? It's NEWER and smaller. They have CATERED to their enrollment numbers with their system. Before going into first-year I was literally behind all 5 of my older cousins while they logged on to their student portals and signed up for courses at their alloted times. They are all different years, in different fields, and go to UTS, UTM, UofT, Ryerson and Queens. There were no issues whatsoever. If there was, they called and it got fixed within 2 days, even in peak time.
I thought that Mac would be the same. It is NOT. That is the problem. Even older universities like Queens and UofT have better student satisfaction than we do in this aspect.
That's all we're asking for. We're not saying that MAC should be re-hauled, that it is a shit university and we should never have gone here. We just want to not spend HOURS a DAY on MUGSI and SOLAR to get a course. We want to be challenged by the material of the course, not the effort and time it takes to register for it. If we need a course for a minor, we should get some help in getting it. If we rate a professor as horrible, we expect that they shouldn't be allowed to teach that course again. And if we get new systems online, we expect it to be tested out before we have to use it. This is not rocket-science.
These are simple things. They all have to do with the student experience - which is why Mac doesn't care about them. If they did, MUGSI and SOLAR and all the servers would have been re-hauled by Chad already.
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FYI: The international students also subsidize the education of locals. And the money that the government does subsidize comes from our parents in the end through taxes.
__________________
Jeremy Han
McMaster Alumni - Honours Molecular Biology and Genetics
Pennsylvania College of Optometry at Salus University Third Year - Doctor of Optometry
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