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Interesting article...thoughts?

 
Old 09-10-2011 at 02:03 PM   #31
Mr.Prodigy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicebox View Post
I'm not going to respond to your entire post because I save my theological debates for philosophy classes. I would just like to point out that it is a bit odd to take pride in the liberties that you have through the virtue of living in a western democracy. I would be much more impressed if such liberties were available in Islamic states.
If you can't seem to handle a debate here, I doubt you'll do that well in Philosophy class

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Old 09-10-2011 at 02:06 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudiger View Post
After you described the many freedoms you have and took a shot at women who choose to drink alcohol, Juicebox said those freedoms are from living in a western democracy
But isn't that the problem? That "western democracy" that you're so proud of encourages and respects people who make the choice to drink (which leads to irresponsible choices, deaths brought about by drunk driving, alcohol cirrhosis- as well as many more cons and absolutely no pros) but women who choose to respect their body and cover it are looked down on and looked upon as oppressed? Where is the logic in that kind of liberty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudiger View Post
The reality is, women here have the choice. If our country strictly followed and enforced the doctrines about dressing modestly that are found in the Qu'ran, they wouldn't have the choice.
The reality is, under Islamic rule, everyone has a choice. The Quraan prohibits Muslims from forcing their religion upon others. The specific quote is "Unto you is your religion and unto me is my religion." Everyone has the freedom, including that to practice the religion of their choice, as long as they don't trespass on the freedoms of others. I agree with you in that there are nations that impose hijab on the women but those are not by the teachings of Islam. Like I said, a distinction needs to be made between Culture vs. Religion.

Last edited by dsalvatore : 09-10-2011 at 02:08 PM.

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Old 09-10-2011 at 03:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsalvatore View Post
The reality is, under Islamic rule, everyone has a choice. The Quraan prohibits Muslims from forcing their religion upon others. The specific quote is "Unto you is your religion and unto me is my religion." Everyone has the freedom, including that to practice the religion of their choice, as long as they don't trespass on the freedoms of others. I agree with you in that there are nations that impose hijab on the women but those are not by the teachings of Islam. Like I said, a distinction needs to be made between Culture vs. Religion.
But I can go to one of those Islamic nations and a religious leader could provide me with a list of Qu'ran quotes describing why they don't tolerate disbelievers and do enforce their beliefs, or I can google and find a contradiction in seconds. My original point was the lack of objectivity when defining a word like jihad from scripture, and the same difficulties of interpretation are found here.
Old 09-10-2011 at 03:43 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudiger View Post
But I can go to one of those Islamic nations and a religious leader could provide me with a list of Qu'ran quotes describing why they don't tolerate disbelievers and do enforce their beliefs, or I can google and find a contradiction in seconds. My original point was the lack of objectivity when defining a word like jihad from scripture, and the same difficulties of interpretation are found here.
I certainly agree with you on this point...there are some different, and many incorrect, interpretations of Quraanic verses. However, I believe the best interpretation you can get is by researching how these "rules" were implemented right at the very beginning of Islam, under Mohammed's guidance. During that time, there were Jews, Pagans and Muslims co-inhabiting the same area. There were peace treaties and alliances forged between these tribes, these are undisputed historical facts. To me, that proves that religious tolerance existed and was encouraged even back then.

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Old 09-10-2011 at 03:44 PM   #35
lawleypop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsalvatore View Post
I would respect your arguments a lot more if you don't go out of your way to sound condescending...

I lived in an "Islamic State" for 6 years. I led the same life I lead now in Canada. So what's your point? If you're talking about nations like Saudi Arabia, I would like to point out that whatever injustices go on there are purely the backwardness of a culture, not the religion. This is the point that people like you ignore no matter how many times it's put out there.

The Islamic religion gave a woman her rights LONG before your "Western Democracy" did. We never had to fight for our rights, they were always there. Western women had to revolt and even then only got part of their rights through the Suffrage movement what, about a hundred years ago?

Women had the right to own property, vote, get an education, work, and get involved in the military (etc) since the beginning of Islam some 1400 years ago. Respect for women was highly emphasized and stressed upon. A woman entering a marriage didn't have to give any of her property or wealth to her husband and whatever income she makes is SOLELY hers unless she chooses otherwise.

When did the Western world give women these rights? Women still TO THIS DAY have to fight and struggle to be treated as equals in the workforce. Women still face the glass ceiling.

I also have the right not to be looked at as a piece of meat that exists solely for the entertainment of men. The rights of a woman in Western democracy? To strip down and have her body exploited so men can make the big bucks. So you're saying I'm only truly "liberated" if I allow people to gawk at my half-naked body?
Actually, YOU'RE the one being EXTREMELY condescending (about western culture)

****ing hypocrite.


(I guess it's not a "choice" for these women to "strip down for the pleasure of men," right?)

You're disgusting.
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Old 09-10-2011 at 03:52 PM   #36
lawleypop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Prodigy View Post
Stereotyping will always exist whether people stand up to it or not. Just like you mentioned, it's natural. Btw, which "white folk" are apologizing to Africans and Natives for their crimes against humanity? I've never heard of such so-called apologies. Apologize every day do you? As a Frank, when is the last time you apologized to North Africans for their mistreatment during WWII by your ancestors? You also seem to hold a strong opposition to discrimination and stereotyping, but did you ever bother writing an article or holding a public demonstration to denounce such things? Don't get me wrong, you may very well be the complete opposite of a hypocrite, but as Gandhi put it, you must "be the change you wish to see in the world."
a) um, the govt for starters? Harper? do you live in a box?
any policy implemented NOW to help CHILDREN of sufferers x many years ago are indirect "apologies" to the situation. there's no reason for an 8th generation native to get free education. i can continue. look at the world, you clearly live in a box if you can't think of ANY instances (either direct or indirect) that imply remorse, guilt, and rectification for the past.

b) No, obviously I don't go "I am so sorry for being born French even though I couldn't help it." If this is your level of reading comprehension, why am I even bothering. But when people start going off about how they hate every bloody frog because we're all retard separatists, I go, "yea, some French people are REALLY dumb. They make us all look bad."

Why can't you do the same? It's not a DIRECT apology, but it's an acknowledgement.

c) Right, because people can't have opinions, viewpoints, life philosophies, or just argue for the sake or arguing without being some sort of MLK-lovin sheep.

Good argument bro.



And what's a frank, am I a hot dog all of a sudden? I croak buddy. Call me what I am!




(HERP DERP WRITING A PAPER WILL END [email protected]#[email protected]!# @)
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Old 09-10-2011 at 03:56 PM   #37
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Its funny , every human being is born to his own religion and when they grow up they start defending it.. If I was born jewish i will defend the jews , and if I was born christian i will say jesus is the son of god and run with it through my life .. The fact is you people arguing on macinsiders should get laid And live your life without hurting people that didnt choose what religion they were born with.
Old 09-10-2011 at 03:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawleypop View Post
Actually, YOU'RE the one being EXTREMELY condescending (about western culture)

****ing hypocrite.


(I guess it's not a "choice" for these women to "strip down for the pleasure of men," right?)

You're disgusting.
You have to be extremely stupid if think the matter is as simple as choice or no-choice. It's no secret that Western culture has sexually objectified women to the point that there are now self-exteem groups that exist just for the sake of convincing girls that they look good the way they are. It's a culture that looks down on you if you choose to abstain from sex until marriage. It's a culture where you gotta compete to have a bigger bust size or firmer ass, where the sexier will quicker be hired than the more-qualified. It's everywhere, and you're blind if you can't see that. You may not have a problem with it, and many people enjoy it, but it's still present. It's not condescension, it's fact.

And so too are her points.

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Old 09-10-2011 at 04:23 PM   #39
lawleypop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogurt View Post
You have to be extremely stupid if think the matter is as simple as choice or no-choice. It's no secret that Western culture has sexually objectified women to the point that there are now self-exteem groups that exist just for the sake of convincing girls that they look good the way they are. It's a culture that looks down on you if you choose to abstain from sex until marriage. It's a culture where you gotta compete to have a bigger bust size or firmer ass, where the sexier will quicker be hired than the more-qualified. It's everywhere, and you're blind if you can't see that. You may not have a problem with it, and many people enjoy it, but it's still present. It's not condescension, it's fact.

And so too are her points.
Actually, yea, that's how I thought the world was run when I was 2.
Yes, beautiful people get ahead. That's intrinsic human nature.

Looks down on you? Jesus, are these people untouchables?

It's not EVERYWHERE, it HAPPENS. Just like your muslim extremists HAPPEN, they're not EVERYWHERE.





Quote:
Its funny , every human being is born to his own religion and when they grow up they start defending it.. If I was born jewish i will defend the jews , and if I was born christian i will say jesus is the son of god and run with it through my life .. The fact is you people arguing on macinsiders should get laid And live your life without hurting people that didnt choose what religion they were born with.


Um... Raised Catholic, and the only thing I remember is that the wine is Jesus's (God's?) blood and the bread tastes amazing. Couldn't give a swimming shit otherwise. The only thing I'll defend is that bread.

But otherwise, cool post bro.
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Last edited by lawleypop : 09-10-2011 at 04:26 PM.

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Old 09-10-2011 at 04:30 PM   #40
Mr.Prodigy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawleypop View Post
a) um, the govt for starters? Harper? do you live in a box?
any policy implemented NOW to help CHILDREN of sufferers x many years ago are indirect "apologies" to the situation. there's no reason for an 8th generation native to get free education. i can continue. look at the world, you clearly live in a box if you can't think of ANY instances (either direct or indirect) that imply remorse, guilt, and rectification for the past.

b) No, obviously I don't go "I am so sorry for being born French even though I couldn't help it." If this is your level of reading comprehension, why am I even bothering. But when people start going off about how they hate every bloody frog because we're all retard separatists, I go, "yea, some French people are REALLY dumb. They make us all look bad."

Why can't you do the same? It's not a DIRECT apology, but it's an acknowledgement.

c) Right, because people can't have opinions, viewpoints, life philosophies, or just argue for the sake or arguing without being some sort of MLK-lovin sheep.

Good argument bro.



And what's a frank, am I a hot dog all of a sudden? I croak buddy. Call me what I am!




(HERP DERP WRITING A PAPER WILL END [email protected]#[email protected]!# @)
You are either willfully ignorant, or just a complete and utter nincompoop.

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Old 09-10-2011 at 04:32 PM   #41
lawleypop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Prodigy View Post
You are either willfully ignorant, or just a complete and utter nincompoop.
Welcome to MacInsiders. I run this shit.

I miss my trollin'.

I guarantee that I'll piss off at least ONE person before they get to this post, and that... just gets me off. wuddup
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Mathematically it makes about as much sense as
(pineapple)$$*cucumbe r*.


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Old 09-10-2011 at 11:07 PM   #42
britb
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/lurking

Posting to see if that stupid forum glitch will fixed itself (I already tried changing posts per page and post ordering)

EDIT: It worked!

Last edited by britb : 09-10-2011 at 11:12 PM.



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