Originally Posted by Theophilus

From a Christian perspective 'screwing a dead goat' does not send you to 'fiery abyss'.

You sure about that?

"And you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is perversion" and "For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people. So keep my charge never to practice any of these abominable customs that were practiced before you, and never to make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.”

-Leviticus 18,19 and 18,29-30

God sounds pretty adamant about not doing goats. And the Old Testament God was the wrathful, spiteful one.

There is no difference between the Old Testament God and New Testament one, There is forgiveness for the sins mentioned in Leviticus 18,19 and 18,29-30. But if there is no repentance, there is no forgiveness. That should be quite obvious.

Originally Posted by reeves

You sure about that?

"And you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is perversion" and "For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people. So keep my charge never to practice any of these abominable customs that were practiced before you, and never to make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.”

-Leviticus 18,19 and 18,29-30

God sounds pretty adamant about not doing goats. And the Old Testament God was the wrathful, spiteful one.

The verse merely says that the person committing bestiality would need to be ostracized by the community.

Now let's step into the Christian worldview for a minute.

Hell. What is it in the Christian worldview? I personally believe that all that talk about fire and brimstone is symbolic, but symbolic for something much worse. What could be worse than eternal physical agony?
Simply put: not being with God, forever. We were made to know God intimately. That is our purpose. Heaven is knowing God intimately, Hell is not knowing God intimately. Heaven fulfills our purpose, in Hell we are left unfulfilled.
A fish is made to be in the water. In hell, we are like a fish flopping around on dry land, our purpose left unfulfilled.

We don't go to hell because of bestiality, we go to hell because we don't know God intimately, for that is the very definition of hell. We refrain from bestiality not from the fear of hell but for the love of God and in obedience to Him.

Now stepping into a non-Christian worldview:
All of the above is very foolish because we were not made to know God intimately. Knowing God personally is not our purpose so we certainly won't be in hell when we die. Also this Christian worldview seems very offensive, because it says everything that I am right now, in the eyes of this Christian God, is wrong and I am heading in the exact opposite direction of fulfilling my purpose and achieving lasting joy.

Originally Posted by Theophilus

If we believe what we are brought up to believe then no one has any chance at discovering truth.

Rather I think our worldview comes from at least three things.
1. Cultural influence. You are right, our upbringing has a big sway over our worldview.
2. Reason and intellect.
3. Personal experiences

(at least) All three make a worldview. (non-exhaustive list of course)
no one can say that religious people are that way simply because of 1 and non-religious people are that way all because of 2. It's always all three.

as you can see, if you consider the scenario I have presented. It would take quite some time for those children to realize why exactly they're doing wrong things.

and hence their perspective might not change or change very slowly since there simply is no hinderance to what they are doing.

Originally Posted by Theophilus

The verse merely says that the person committing bestiality would need to be ostracized by the community.

Now let's step into the Christian worldview for a minute.

Hell. What is it in the Christian worldview? I personally believe that all that talk about fire and brimstone is symbolic, but symbolic for something much worse. What could be worse than eternal physical agony?
Simply put: not being with God, forever. We were made to know God intimately. That is our purpose. Heaven is knowing God intimately, Hell is not knowing God intimately. Heaven fulfills our purpose, in Hell we are left unfulfilled.
A fish is made to be in the water. In hell, we are like a fish flopping around on dry land, our purpose left unfulfilled.

We don't go to hell because of bestiality, we go to hell because we don't know God intimately, for that is the very definition of hell. We refrain from bestiality not from the fear of hell but for the love of God and in obedience to Him.

Now stepping into a non-Christian worldview:
All of the above is very foolish because we were not made to know God intimately. Knowing God personally is not our purpose so we certainly won't be in hell when we die. Also this Christian worldview seems very offensive, because it says everything that I am right now, in the eyes of this Christian God, is wrong and I am heading in the exact opposite direction of fulfilling my purpose and achieving lasting joy.

I'm no expert, but IIRC, punishment > positive reinforcement.

I would do it because of the fear.

And I'm glad you bring in that last paragraph. But it's not offensive. Certainly not to me, since I don't believe in god. How could I possibly be offended by the beliefs of something that doesn't exist. In fact, wouldn't being offended only prove that something might be there?

I don't understand, do people like my signature or my post?

Originally Posted by lawleypop

I'm no expert, but IIRC, punishment > positive reinforcement.

I would do it because of the fear.

And I'm glad you bring in that last paragraph. But it's not offensive. Certainly not to me, since I don't believe in god. How could I possibly be offended by the beliefs of something that I believe doesn't exist. In fact, wouldn't being offended only prove that something might be there?

corrected you're welcome [j/k]

Originally Posted by Ryan V

There is no difference between the Old Testament God and New Testament one, There is forgiveness for the sins mentioned in Leviticus 18,19 and 18,29-30. But if there is no repentance, there is no forgiveness. That should be quite obvious.

Theres no difference? Have you read the bible?

Old Testament God makes Moses lead the people through a desert for 40 years, then kills him before they get to the Promised Land, but only after he reigns hell down upon all of Egypt, including the creeping death (death of first borns) because one man, the Pharaoh, was stubborn. Old Testament God floods the world, killing everyone. Old Testament God sticks Jonah in the belly of a sea creature for 3 days and nights. Old Testament God tortures Job, to win a bet with Satan.

New testament God just forgives people, and is all about peace.

Dont tell me they're the same God.

And if I had to believe in god, I'd believe in Old Testament god.

That is one hell of a BAMF.

Originally Posted by andrew22

I'm not sure I understand your response? is it to my post? what do you meeeeeannn??? : )

Well done!

Originally Posted by reeves

Theres no difference? Have you read the bible?
Old Testament God tortures Job, to win a bet with Satan.

God had his own reasons to allow satan to inflict suffering on Job. The point of Job is to show that bad things do happen to good people, even perfect people. But the book does not offer a reason for why these things happen. The other point of the book is that we can take solace in the fact that God is sovereign. After Job's friends have spoken and failed to comfort him, God comes and talks to Job. He gives Job absolutely no reasons why these things happened but simply shows Job his glory and power. The strange thing is, after God is done speaking, Job is comforted.
You might think this is ridiculous, that no real person would be comforted by some glory-seeking God, and you would be right, for people not within certain religious worldviews. I have seen friends comforted simply by glimpsing God's glory, so it is not unrealistic for people of faith.

Originally Posted by reeves

New testament God just forgives people, and is all about peace.

Dont tell me they're the same God.

Actually Jesus talks about hell more than anyone else in the Bible.
He also said

Originally Posted by Jesus

Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.

Originally Posted by Theophilus

God had his own reasons to allow satan to inflict suffering on Job. The point of Job is to show that bad things do happen to good people, even perfect people. But the book does not offer a reason for why these things happen. The other point of the book is that we can take solace in the fact that God is sovereign. After Job's friends have spoken and failed to comfort him, God comes and talks to Job. He gives Job absolutely no reasons why these things happened but simply shows Job his glory and power. The strange thing is, after God is done speaking, Job is comforted.
You might think this is ridiculous, that no real person would be comforted by some glory-seeking God, and you would be right, for people not within certain religious worldviews. I have seen friends comforted simply by glimpsing God's glory, so it is not unrealistic for people of faith.



Actually Jesus talks about hell more than anyone else in the Bible.
He also said

Thats awesome. That also has nothing to do with what I said. God changed from Old to New Testament.

P.S. if you wanna throw out Jesus quotes, at least throw out the whole passage for context. He was talking about loving Him (as the son of God) before your own blood, not about being a person of discord.

God does not change, He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He judged Sodom and Gomorrah, but Jesus in the new testament said

"Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: Woe unot thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven , shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. Byt I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee. "

The remains of Sodom and Gomorrah are there to this day, the sulphur balls are still embedded in the ruins (the sulphur is the purest form of sulphur found on earth 98-99% pure). Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. Sulphur is the same as brimstone.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not.

Originally Posted by Ryan V

The remains of Sodom and Gomorrah are there to this day, the sulphur balls are still embedded in the ruins (the sulphur is the purest form of sulphur found on earth 98-99% pure). Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. Sulphur is the same as brimstone.

From Wikipedia (which I believe more than the bible):

The historical existence of Sodom and Gomorrah is still in dispute by archaeologists.

Furthermore, critics go on to say that "the name Sodom is a derivative of the Hebrew word for "scorched" and Gomorrah is from the Hebrew ‘amar, meaning "a ruined heap", surmising that since these names could only have been given after their destruction, the entire story would have to be fictitious"

Well, this got boring.

I'm gonna go fap, smoke weed, and watch **** all at once!

(because I can)