Originally Posted by die-antwoord

May i propose a MASH counter campaign? FSM?! May you be touched by his noodly appendage! maybe a couple of artistic interpretations for good measure...http://www.venganza.org/

aHA! so this IS about the content/topic of the campain.... not so much about the chalking :p

Originally Posted by sew12

There are also Scientists who have proven evolution to be true, thoughts?

thoughts: they haven't

Science can't "prove" things like "macro evolution" or the big bang. Science deals with experiments that can be repeated (ie... not the creation/evolution of people). There ARE theories... but then if you ask other scientists (aethist / Christian) many would still say that evolution is a silly idea.

Okay. I don't think I'm going to get anywhere touching that so moving on.

I'll ask you something else, do you think God's existence/creationism/other claims by religions (not just Christian ones necessarily) can be proven?

Originally Posted by Kathy2

I don't understand why some people don't understand that others are upset about this KGP stuff.

If TINGGOI was written all over the school with chalk, standing for "THERE IS NO GOD, GET OVER IT", wouldn't religious people be offended ..?

If you are not offended by this chalk KGP stuff, that's fine. But that doesn't mean other people can't be upset or offended by it.

Ummm, I just don't think it works the same way. If someone said "COME AND MEET MY PET PURPLE FLYING MAGIC UNICORN!" I might... roll my eyes at most and shake my head.

But if someone wrote "The HOLOCAUST NEVER HAPPENED, STOP BEING BABIES!!!". Then I might be a little upset

Originally Posted by sew12

This makes me want to buy chalk and write TINGGOI all over campus except I'm not rude so I don't like to graffiti other people's property.

aww come on... we've gone over this :p. If anything, it's the school's property, and if they're okay with it, then they're okay with it :p

Originally Posted by DannyV

Just like church, you gotta pay to pray

slightly ignorant comment... :s

Originally Posted by sew12

Okay. I don't think I'm going to get anywhere touching that so moving on.

I'll ask you something else, do you think God's existence/creationism/other claims by religions (not just Christian ones necessarily) can be proven?

Ummm... I personally yes.

I gotta go study for a midterm now though :(. I'm liking the thread though, keep it up y'all!!

why would you study, you know god personally, ask him for the answers

Personally I'm more upset in this case about the chalking up of campus, its tacky. A secondary concern is the content though, I don't think a religious group should be putting their messages all over University like this. No religious group btw, not just Christian ones, it seems a few people seem to think that people only have a problem with Christian religions.

If Campus for Christ is having some kind of lecture or information session or meeting on the issue than can make and post approved posters on the provided boards across campus.

Originally Posted by Ryan V

there are pictures of the wheels underwater as well as pictures of the altar and of the mountain. im not sure how you missed them. Also ive never ever heard of evolution being proved true hence it is called a theory

Well, for starters we don't even have a record of the Egyptians keeping Hebrews as slaves except for Exodus. The Egyptians were phenomenal record keepers, we know the price of salt for almost their entire reign. How would 40K slaves escaping not be recorded?

I don't want to derail this thread into a debate about evolution but there really is no scientific debate about evolution. No one has evidence based objections to it. There is insurmountable amounts of evidence. We also still have cell theory, germ theory, etc. There is no debate over their factuality though.

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Science and Big Bang Theory
I will start off with this. The existence of God can be neither demonstrably proven or disproven. Rather one must have faith in a specific belief about God or in our case the existence of the world. However, I do think I can make the argument that it takes more faith to believe in the Big Bang than in a Creator.

Stephen Hawking, a very well known scientist, once wrote "Almost everyone now believes that the universe, and time itself, had a beginning at the Big Bang".

Another scientist, Francis Collins, put the Big Bang Theory in layman's terms writing

"We have this very solid conclusion that the universe had an origin, the Big Bang. Fifteen billion years ago, the universe began with an unimaginable bright flash of energy from an infinitesimally small point. That implies that before that, there was nothing. I can't imagine how nature, in this case the universe, could have created itself. And the very fact that the universe had a beginning implies that someone was able to begin it. And it seems to me that had to be outside of nature."

Everything we know in this world is "contingent" has a cause outside of itself. Therefore the universe, which is just a huge pile of such contingent entities, would itself have to be dependent on some cause outside of itself. Something had to make the Big Bang happen- but what? What could that be but something outside of nature, a supernatural, non contingent being that exists from itself.

This is just one of many reasons why I think an argument can be made that It takes more faith to believe in the Big Bang Theory than in a Creator.

Many of these reasons are outlined in a book called "The Reason for God". Please don't let the title scare you lol. It doesn't force a religion on you it simply outlines many logical ways of thinking about many of the tough questions that go along with religion.
If anyone is interested in reading the book I can lend it to you, just send me an email at [email protected]

Hope that helps

Originally Posted by healthsci1

why would you study, you know god personally, ask him for the answers

woah woah woah! Same thing is happening with me that happened with bree. All of a sudden because I am not bashing, everyone assumes I am the one writing KGP... o boy :p *shakes head and looks down*

I didn't see anyone mention the Big Bang Theory so I don't know how that would have helped anyone.

That said you actually seem more open to debate than others who have posted "zomg pictures!111" and "evolution is a theory."

Originally Posted by sew12

I didn't see anyone mention the Big Bang Theory so I don't know how that would have helped anyone.

That said you actually seem more open to debate than others who have posted "zomg pictures!111" and "evolution is a theory."

I am willing to debate... but you can't just assume I would be debating against you just because I don't think that it can be PROVEN :p

Ok, as for this beautifully metaphysical (READ: "NOT EMPIRICALLY BASED) and philosophical argument against the Big Bang...

Granted that you're right (which is by no means true, btw), I need only give you one single sentence response to prove that your theory doesn't give you proof for God:

There is NOTHING in the argument for a First Cause that requires that cause to be a)conscious, b)eternal, or c)omnipotent/omnipresent/etc. All it says it that we might need SOMETHING to have started the universe.

If you want to argue God's existence using philosophy, you might want to take at least an Intro course in the subject.