Well, it's happened. And Misspolitics wants to bring up this political "scandal" as well, so a new thread is in order. The Liberals discovered that Vikileaks, (who tweeted already-public details about a Conservative MP), was started by a Liberal staffer (not an MP or elected official mind you). The Conservatives claim all opponents to their bill C-30 are "siding with the child pornographers". So There you have it... The Liberal staffer must support Child Pornography, according to the Conservatives.

"Opponents of a controversial bill that would give authorities new powers to increase online monitoring of Canadians have been accused of siding with “child pornographers” by Safety Minister Vic Toews." ---
http://news.nationalpost.com /2012/...ers-vic-toews/

While nothing that the staffer did was illegal, and not even out of the ordinary (if you don't think every other person in Parliament uses their office computer to do personal stuff every once in a while, you are insane), since it was such a public mis-use of government computer resources, the staffer had to go. Plus, hey: If the Conservatives were right, he was probably a "child pornography" supporter.

Vikileaks staffer ousted ---
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...vikileaks.html

Other than the suggestion that he might support child pornographers, let's hear why Canada should be focussed on this person who tweeted public knowledge in a bid to raise awareness about a highly controversial bill. That is, why focus on this, while at LEAST one rogue Conservative staff member or possibly MP, who's still being paid by our tax dollars, is still running around Parliament Hill, while an investigation looms which bears the penalty of $5,000 or up to 5 Years in Prison.

Go ahead, I'd love to here why this Liberal "scandal" can even be discussed to the same magnitude as the robo-call campaign which has undermined our democracy. (If you think that's an over exaggeration, then go talk to the people who were called and told their polling stations were moved to fake locations and didn't get to practice their right to a democratic vote).

Note: While this all sounds really hypocritical to the person who can't think critically, I am simply placing a degree of importance on these two events. I see one as an undermining of democracy, as I think I have made clear here, and in another thread, while I see the other one as a unique (and apparently effective), albeit poorly executed means of raising awareness about another threat to our Canadian Rights. If you think this means of raising awareness is undermining of democracy, then that is your argument (look, I'm even telling you what to argue!). Good luck proving to the rest of the public that this unethical office-computer use, and posting of already-public knowledge is really more of a threat to democracy than voter suppression though.

i personally think that you are using a bit of conjecture there. first of all to say that the liberal staffer in question over the vikileaks scandal was simply using a government computer for HIS OWN personal stuff is highly mistaken. what he did was childish, immature, and outright rude. he invaded the privacy of another individual, and made public the details of his divorce. i dont see how you can link that to the staffer simply posting his own personal stuff and undermine it. An individual who is in his role is someone who works fr the country, is paid by us tax payers, and should as such carry out his business in a professional manner. If the staffer had an issue with bill C-30 he shouldn't have played such a back handed move, revealing information about another personal life, he should have simply voiced his opinion and gotten his MP to do something about it.

Now i do see the irony here, kind of. Vic Towes is the one who is so combatant towards seeing bill C-30 come through. It his his own bill which could* lead to the end of internet privacy (not like there even ever was before). So who is he to complain that his personal stuff got out? well the thing about his bill is that law enforcement authorities are the ones who can gain access to the information without consent, at the same time they would not go ahead and make every little detail about an individual public for all to see and criticize. I would expect that they would only go about looking at information of persons whom they think have committed a crime and only make public that information which they think is relevant to their case. <<< now just a disclaimer, i do not support this bill and i believe that it is a huge violation of our privacy, if the cops want to see some ones internet history and private information then they should have no problem with going to the court, presenting the reasons to why they want to see that information, and getting a court order for it. And as for that statement about supporting them or supporting child pornography, well that was simply childish dribble spewed out by an MP once again to gain favour for his bill. -_-. I dont see how an individual can even make that link..... it completely dumbfounds me.

Now concerning the robo calls, i would have to agree with you, this is definitely more important than the Vic affairs, but probably not as important as bill C-30, imo. I would worry if this was more widespread, if the number of places affected would have actually made a difference to the outcome of the race. thats not to say that this isnt serious. this for sure is something which goes against what democracy is, and i have a feeling that this will only get bigger until they finally find out the cause for all of this. But from what i have been hearing it was not only opposition candidates who had there calls in their riding, even conservative candidates/MPs reported that individuals in their riding were getting these calls too. Now im not going to go into any conspiracy stuff here so ill just let elections Canada do their work and tell me what happened. the one thing i dont get is the point of having an emergency debate in the house of commons over this. first off the conservatives dont seem to know what's going on, and if they did i doubt they would say a word about it. and second you have the authority in charge over this carrying out an investigation, so why waste time repeatedly asking for an explanation and repeatedly saying we don't know but give the info to elections and let them do their job. -_- i say tidbits of this yesterday and i swear a few MP's from both sides said the same exact thing back and forth for a few min..... wow.... its not like there isnt something more useful you could discuss... i.e. Bill C-30, or education or something, heck anything would be more productive than having a back and forth conjectural argument.

now there are a fe things i have learned from all of this;
1) the older you get the more immature you become and MP's and those in the parliment are just a bunch of kids that dont know how to behave and carry out their work professionally.... (like a swear when i read these stories; a staffer posting personal information about someone else "internet bullying," linking something to something else completely random and somewhat arbitrary, and having an argument over absolutely nothing and wasting their times, well i just imagine kids in my head acting as kids, not an MP doing something productive and useful -_-)
2) yea i think MP's are just immature kids thats pretty much all i learned.....

p.s. i noticed your threads tend to get kind of riled up so i think ill make this a one time post.....

Originally Posted by Chevalier

i personally think that you are using a bit of conjecture there. first of all to say that the liberal staffer in question over the vikileaks scandal was simply using a government computer for HIS OWN personal stuff is highly mistaken. what he did was childish, immature, and outright rude. he invaded the privacy of another individual, and made public the details of his divorce. i dont see how you can link that to the staffer simply posting his own personal stuff and undermine it. An individual who is in his role is someone who works fr the country, is paid by us tax payers, and should as such carry out his business in a professional manner. If the staffer had an issue with bill C-30 he shouldn't have played such a back handed move, revealing information about another personal life, he should have simply voiced his opinion and gotten his MP to do something about it.

I agree that it wasn't the best way about things, but his MP, as well as many others, were already hassling the Conservatives about this Bill, and the Conservatives called them "supporters of Child Pornographers". Now, if the Conservatives were to simply back down (flip-flop as they say) after a few more argumentative points by concerned citizens and MPs, they would themselves be "supporters of child pornographers".

So again, I will make it VERY CLEAR. I DON'T THINK THE STAFFER WENT ABOUT THIS IN THE RIGHT WAY. But he made Canadians as a vast majority (the same majority that didn't want the Conservatives in power... more than 60% of us) realize that something wicked Parliament's way comes, and that wasn't going to happen by "talking to his MP", as we can see by the Conservative's attitude towards any opposition to their dictating... That is, we're all "supporters of child pornography".

I'm glad you somewhat understand the dangerous and lasting impact the Conservatives have had on our Democracy. You don't quite grasp what even one (we're talking about thousands here) can do, or the value of a vote in principle to democracy, but that'll come later, if you are ever tricked by a robocall-ing campaign in the future and miss your opportunity to vote... OR if you notice that none of your friends will go out and vote. Depends on how your critical thinking skills are developed.

And if we're going to criticize the Liberal guy for consuming our taxpayer money, look at my original post: The Conservatives who were involved in the Voter Suppression are supposed to be in jail, or paying $5,000 out of their pocket (which was put there by us as taxpayers) as a fine. But they're still taking our money in the form of paycheques, and they're still in Parliament.

Originally Posted by mike_302

I agree that it wasn't the best way about things, but his MP, as well as many others, were already hassling the Conservatives about this Bill, and the Conservatives called them "supporters of Child Pornographers".

Oh noes, name calling and baseless alligations in politics!
That's never happened before obviously. Everyone grab a pitchfork, lets storm Ottawa!

I'm glad you somewhat understand the dangerous and lasting impact the Conservatives have had on our Democracy.

Yep, all things EVUL are the fault of 1 political party. Nevermind how the glorious Liberals under Martin and Chretien had their own political scandals.

I think it's become pretty clear that you have some serious issues. While your ravings are amusing, you REALLY need to chill out. At this point you're 1 rant away from becoming MacInsiders' Glenn Beck (rabid liberaltard version) on the political craycray scale.

Ooops. Pardon me for making some serious political news known to students who may be (and some who obviously are) unaware. I will let those unaware people continue on now, making themselves look silly irl, and spreading baseless propaganda because they don't know how to become properly informed themselves.

Gosh, I'm so silly! I should really be mocking these people like you do, and playing down serious issues that affect our Democracy because, hey, "all politicians are liars and cheaters". Heck, why even vote?! Why even have a democracy, right? We've been in a dictatorship for the past 9 months by the Conservatives: Dictatorships must work better than democracy, because politicians just lie all the time... What's the point of an opposition party? Just let the group of politicians that only have ~39%,40% of the country's support, tell us all what to do, how to live, and then we'll let them access our computer data...

Funny part is, 90% of what I just said is already happening. So you're right. I'm just going to stop making these issues known.

From what I gather, this is exactly the same line of 'argument' that an american of a particular political party would say... "you're siding with terrorists!". In any case, other than this Safety Minister Vic Toews guy, who else is using the term (and severity of the term) 'child pornographers'?

Vic is the only one who has said those words, but his party backed him up on it, and still does obviously. They stood behind Bill C-30 until they felt the ACTUAL heat was on and more than just words might come flying at them. They can ignore words... Can't ignore legit threats, irl.

Originally Posted by mike_302

spreading baseless propaganda because they don't know how to become properly informed themselves.

LOL
There aren't enough eyeroll smilies in the world to express how delusional and unaware this is.

Gosh, I'm so silly! I should really be mocking these people like you do, and playing down serious issues that affect our Democracy because, hey, "all politicians are liars and cheaters". Heck, why even vote?! Why even have a democracy, right? We've been in a dictatorship for the past 9 months by the Conservatives: Dictatorships must work better than democracy, because politicians just lie all the time... What's the point of an opposition party? Just let the group of politicians that only have ~39%,40% of the country's support, tell us all what to do, how to live, and then we'll let them access our computer data...

When did I ever say any of this? Were you "reading between the lines" again? I disagreed with your ravings, nothing else.

Your tinfoil hat is on just a bit too tight if you actually believe we're in a dictatorship. Plus, for someone who just loves him some democracy you don't really seem to understand how it works in Canada. Since Canada uses the single-member plurality electoral system, the party in power is determined by whoever wins a plurality so the proportion of seats might not reflect the popular vote.

Funny part is, 90% of what I just said is already happening. So you're right. I'm just going to stop making these issues known.

Kay.

Originally Posted by mike_302

Ooops. Pardon me for making some serious political news known to students who may be (and some who obviously are) unaware. I will let those unaware people continue on now, making themselves look silly irl, and spreading baseless propaganda because they don't know how to become properly informed themselves.

Gosh, I'm so silly! I should really be mocking these people like you do, and playing down serious issues that affect our Democracy because, hey, "all politicians are liars and cheaters". Heck, why even vote?! Why even have a democracy, right? We've been in a dictatorship for the past 9 months by the Conservatives: Dictatorships must work better than democracy, because politicians just lie all the time... What's the point of an opposition party? Just let the group of politicians that only have ~39%,40% of the country's support, tell us all what to do, how to live, and then we'll let them access our computer data...

Funny part is, 90% of what I just said is already happening. So you're right. I'm just going to stop making these issues known.

I'm actually wondering if you are being serious, here, but it's obvious that you can't debate with respect for the other person- no matter who they are unless they 100% agree with you. Therefore, I will not respond any of these ridiculous posts anymore. If you want to debate without sarcastic comments, then please let me know. Otherwise, I won't comment to your posts anymore. This is about respect for the other person. I was always taught to respect others, especially in political matters. I believe that respect is to be given to everyone even if they do not have the same point of view as myself. I hope this doesn't deter anyone from wanting to have a civil political debate in the future on Macinsiders because I will still be part of political debates, just not when it attacks other people.

Originally Posted by Goran

LOL
Since Canada uses the single-member plurality electoral system, the party in power is determined by whoever wins a plurality so the proportion of seats might not reflect the popular vote.

Kay.

Mmmm, actually:

http://enr.elections.ca/National_e.aspx

Kay.

For anyone who doesn't want to click, what this link shows is that while the Conservatives have 54% of the seats in the house, only 39.6% of votes were Conservative.

Remember when I said people were uninformed? Remember when you said I was delusional to believe that people were unaware?

Get informed.

Originally Posted by mike_302

Mmmm, actually:

http://enr.elections.ca/National_e.aspx

Kay.

For anyone who doesn't want to click, what this link shows is that while the Conservatives have 54% of the seats in the house, only 39.6% of votes were Conservative.

Remember when I said people were uninformed? Remember when you said I was delusional to believe that people were unaware?

Get informed.

If I understand what Goran said correctly then you just agreed with him.

The conservatives got the most votes of any of the parties, not necessarily >50%.

If that is the case, than what I said originally was right, and he agreed with ME, but thought he was saying something else:

I originally said "Only 39,40% of Canadians support the Conservatives.

He said: "the party in power is determined by whoever wins a plurality so the proportion of seats might not reflect the popular vote. "

That link I provided then states: "Yes, the number of seats (54%, 167 seats) does not reflect the number of Conservative votes... In fact, only 39.6% of votes were Conservative". While this was the highest number of votes for one party, it reflects that the majority of Canadians did not want Conservatives in power, as I originally said.

Originally Posted by mike_302

Mmmm, actually:

http://enr.elections.ca/National_e.aspx

Get informed.

Pirate party, Radical Marijuana .... where have you been all my life !!!!, Get informed for sure now i know who to vote for !!!

all kidding aside only 61% voter turnout WTF >< it should be illegal to not vote, i hate that so many throw away their votes like that.

Originally Posted by Chevalier

Pirate party, Radical Marijuana .... where have you been all my life !!!!, Get informed for sure now i know who to vote for !!!

all kidding aside only 61% voter turnout WTF >< it should be illegal to not vote, i hate that so many throw away their votes like that.

Do you really want people being forced to vote who clearly don't care enough to go cast a ballot? If you're not motivated to participate in democracy, how informed of a decision do you think they'd make if they had to?

Originally Posted by RyanC

Do you really want people being forced to vote who clearly don't care enough to go cast a ballot? If you're not motivated to participate in democracy, how informed of a decision do you think they'd make if they had to?

That's why politics should be made mandatory in school, or at the very least civics should be longer than half of a semester in grade 10...