so I just passed a poster in BSB that had an interesting message on it...

it said vote no for the dvd referendum, because there is NO opt-out program, and NO accountability. the poster was from the SRA...

to me both those claims seem completely false. we don't know if there will be an opt-out program, one of the main issues the MSU will be investigating that exact possibility. also, the MSU could find a company that would agree to follow MSU guidelines, and run under the restrictions imposed by the MSU...

how did a poster like that be allowed up? even if the second claim is arguable, since there will never be complete accountability, the first must be seen as at the least a gross exaggeration of the truth...

...say hello to the girl who put up these posters.

The SRA has met with this company who is on the 'for' side before. We know how the service would operate under the MSU and what it would be required to do according to this question.

All this question is asking is whether or not you're willing to pay money for a DVD access service. This implies nothing of an opt-out fee and nothing of it even being unlimited.. This poster is therefore CORRECT. The reason we're advertising it is because some groups are thinking that there will automatically be one which is not the case. They may think that this justifies the fact that people who don't want to pay this fee won't have to... but it is not necessarily true.

No accountability? The company who is pushing the 'for' side is what has no accountability. Thankfully, if thing does go through, crabs forbid, we have the option to contract out the service to one we think is best.
If you think those posters questioning their accountability are false, they aren't. This company on the 'for' side is uber questionable.

ok, thanks temara. i guess it still seems weird to me that something included in the preface to the referendum doesn't really matter... but ok, i understand.

because the preface is non-binding.... the only binding part is the question itself.

After thorough investigation and long contemplation, I feel that it is necessary to apologize to Ian Finlay. I was in the wrong and shouldn't have
1. called Ian out in a public forum
2. jumped to conclusions by assuming he was trying to influence the vote in an inappropriate manner
While there are certain things that I still disagree with, I should not have blamed Ian for it. I now have a better understanding about referendums in general. I was previously misinformed about select things. I encourage students to vote this Wednesday and Thursday. I also encourage students not to make the same mistake I have made that being making assumptions and to go and try to inform themselves. Do the research and then vote. While I disagree with this referendum, I will not encourage you to vote a certain way. I trust that you will all do your research (as you probably are considering that you're reading this thread) and vote for the side you feel is best. I'll see you at the polls.

Nicole

I feel there should be an opt-out of all MSU "Services" no matter how "Essential" MSU feels they are. I don't want them. Why should I pay for them.

I think if that option were available we wouldn't have the MSU services we have. It costs money to have the services available. From what I know (with a few exceptions which will remain unnamed) the services are utilized. You may not think that they are essential, however, enough students do.

I feel there should be an opt-out of all MSU "Services" no matter how "Essential" MSU feels they are. I don't want them. Why should I pay for them.

The thing with that is that it is simply not practical. For the health and dental plans, there is a full-time staff member who devotes the marjority of her job to organizing this. Not to mention it costs money to process opt-outs. All the paper work adds up fast.

There is a difference between talking about opting out of MSU services and opting out of supplementary fees like the solar car or the ath and rec fee. These fees such as the solar car and the ath and rec fee are all fees that were passed by students in previous referenda. The MSU services are funded out of the MSU's operating budget. This pays for everything from clubs to compass to quarters to the advocacy work that your representatives take on. If you don't use these services or don't want them, I'd first encourage you to take a second look at what these services are that you say you do not use. Secondly, I'd encourage you to form constructive input as to how these services either could be better or why they should be discontinued. If you have feedback like this, talk to the SRA Services committee about this.

Originally Posted by temara.brown

The thing with that is that it is simply not practical. For the health and dental plans, there is a full-time staff member who devotes the marjority of her job to organizing this. Not to mention it costs money to process opt-outs. All the paper work adds up fast.

So another option would be opting IN to services rather than giving money then waiting to get it back 3 months later. As part of our course selection we could also have fee selection. Of course not many people would like to pay for things so they would probably not opt in to many fees.

The fees that were passed through referenda (Solar Car, etc.) could appear on the list but be greyed out with an explanation of why students can't opt out of them.

Just a thought.

I know this may be off topic but what is the solar car and whyyyy do we have one?

Here is all the info you need about Solar Car Project: http://www.solarcar.mcmaster .ca/

my problem with opt-in is that first years are confused enough as it is, we don't know where to go to buy textbooks...

if you tell me that i need to review a list of msu services, review each individual one, decide which ones i want and not, and then submit that list... i won't do it. honestly, i could get by without the services... but i wouldn't realize how useful they are until i used the services.

and what if a service got shut down because not enough people opted in? is that fair to those who need the service?

and suddenly my parents would get involved, quizzing me on whether or not i need the service, because as a mandatory fee, it is immediately paid without question... opt in means extra, means them saying "no, we don't want to pay for that" which could very negatively affect my university career.

Some of the services. It's possible that ones that you use daily would no longer be there if there was an opt-in or out for all.

As you get more familiar with the university you learn the difference between the school and the MSU (it took me a bit too); and from their how the different political entities work, school politics etc etc.

Unfortunately, a lot of students don't take the time to read up on the information they are provided with: the MSU Almanac for instance has info on ALL of the MSU services...but I bet most students don't take the time to leaf, if not read through when they pick it up each and every Welcome Week.

Lol and too soon cut out all of the "excess" pages.

Hi everyone,

I'm sure it's been said dozens of times by now, but thank you for engaging in a conversation about how MSU fees work.

The reason why it's not possible to opt out of MSU Services is because of how the MSU is set up as a corporate entity. You see and hear of the MSU a lot as a political entity, but not a lot of students know that we're fully incorporated under Ontario Acts of Incorporation.

Since we're a corporation our budgets are set up in pretty specific ways. So let me explain them

Operating Fund - This is the main budget line for all of our services. So all of our services draw funds out of a single fund account which is divided into many budget lines for accounting, transparency and accountability purposes. The Operating Fund is supplied through the Operating Fund Fee, which is outlined in Bylaw 5 on the MSU website, I won't cite and exact amount, but it's collected as a lump sum and placed into the main account for our services to draw from.

Capital Fund - This fund is used for capital expenses which are long term use items (couches, tables, desks, chairs, cubicles) valued at over 250$ and useful for longer than one year. So a the Capital fund is essentially a separate account much like the Operating Fund. The key difference between them is that the capital fund is fed via the Operating Fund. This is because all capital depreciates (aka as time goes on, becomes worth less than it was when it was purchased). As an item depreciates, the value of depreciation for each year is taken from the Operating Fund and placed into the Capital Fund.

(someone in the MSU, especially the VP Finance or the Finance Comm. correct me if that's wrong, but I think I got it)

And in addition to those two major funds, there is the WUSC refugee fund, and many other fees collected by the MSU for various projects. All these fees were created via referenda.

So the reason why you can't opt out of certain MSU Services is because no service has a per student value, the Operating Fund from which services draw money has a per student value that you can't opt out of because you wouldn't be an MSU member if you did, and all post-secondary students are required to be members of a student union (or equivalent) under law.

MSU budgets can be asked for by anyone I believe, all you have to do is come see the VP Finance and ask for a copy, we'll even sit down with you and teach you how to read the budgets line by line. If you don't feel comfortable asking the VP Finance, just come and find me during my office hours and I'll help you out since I have a lot of experience with MSU budgets as an SRA Member, Executive Board Member and as a former department manager.

If you have anymore questions about MSU finances, please ask, there are almost no questions I will not answer (the only ones I can't answer relate to Human Resources, aka commenting on employee job performance or other matters relating to current employees, not that it's classified, it's that employees have a right to privacy in such matters, but I doubt it would come up, so yeah.....)

- Andrew