Originally Posted by Ownaginatios

Not really, you'd have to be a pretty big tool to try hard and still end up with those averages in either case.

Not necessarily. Take for example the student in humanities is getting a 6, however the class average is 8...then that student is performing below average. On the other hand, the Engineering student is also getting a 6, however the class average is 2...then that student is performing exceptionally well.

Unfortunately, the GPA does not indicate this information, which is unfortunate because this is what employers and universities use to compare us.

As asked above... what is going to happen to those of us that paid the balance of our tuition in full at the beginning of the year? They can't really give us a rebate on something we've already paid... Will we get money back from the university? Will we get a larger OSAP payout? Or will we get the shaft?

Originally Posted by Maitland

As asked above... what is going to happen to those of us that paid the balance of our tuition in full at the beginning of the year? They can't really give us a rebate on something we've already paid... Will we get money back from the university? Will we get a larger OSAP payout? Or will we get the shaft?

The definition of a rebate is a return on something already paid. When you buy something in a store which has a rebate you pay full price and usually have to mail in the rebate to the company who would then give you back money (although I haven't seen a rebate in years, I wonder if they still exist). It's synonymous to a refund.

It's unclear how they'll be paying back the 'rebate'? I don't get if they're just taking the names from OSAP to see who should get the rebate or actually giving the money back through OSAP. Either way I'm super excited for this, any extra money always helps!

Originally Posted by goodnews.inc

If we were to give rebates based on percentages, some people could get more off than others and that is still an issue of inequality. To reiterate, if a grade cutoff could be considered unfair due to an inequality in an engineer's curriculum vs that of somebody in a different program, then giving rebates based on the amount of tuition paid is still unfair.

I disagree with this because the people getting back more money based on precentage have to PAY more money, essentially evening everything out.
I also agree that 160,000 is too large of an income bracket (Unless family size were taken into account). It should be a lower initial bracket and increase by say 30,000 for every child in university. So lets say a family makes 110,000 a year and has one kid in university or college, that family wouldnt get a rebate but a different family making 110,000 with two kids in university would.

So if my family earns more than that amount I get nothing. But I pay for my tuition my parents pay none of it. This doesn't seem fair to those whose parents make good money but don't pay for their children's tuition

I believe that a refund based on grades is just silly. There are way to many factors to consider. We have scholarships available for people who perform well academically. Education is a right. Every student should be eligible even the "rich" ones.

Originally Posted by Rob Mac

So if my family earns more than that amount I get nothing. But I pay for my tuition my parents pay none of it. This doesn't seem fair to those whose parents make good money but don't pay for their children's tuition

The government only has a limited amount of funds to give out for tuition rebates, and they probably chose this criteria as it benefits the most amount of people (and is possibly the most fair) vs. other ways of distributing the money.

I'm sorry to those kids whose parents make more than $160k...life must be hard for them.

Originally Posted by Infinity

I believe that a refund based on grades is just silly. There are way to many factors to consider. We have scholarships available for people who perform well academically. Education is a right. Every student should be eligible even the "rich" ones.

Education is not a right...it is a privilege. Ask any kid in Africa or the Middle East.

Will international students be eligible?

Originally Posted by Allan

Education is not a right...it is a privilege. Ask any kid in Africa or the Middle East.

http://www.unesco.org/new/en/educati...-to-education/
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/gencomm/escgencom13.htm
http://www.echr.coe.int/NR/rdonlyres...lturels_EN.pdf

Originally Posted by Thinker

Will international students be eligible?

I'm assuming no as this is funded by the government and therefore by the taxpayers.

To the arguments against a grade point requirement that argue it's unfair because of varying standards: Why would it be outrageous to require a student to be carrying a reasonable GPA level for your program? It's data that can be determined quickly by the registrar. They do it every year for the Golden Key society... Top 10% get the invite. Adjust the calculation to pick the top 75% (for example), and BOOM! they're eligible. The rest: You need to pick up the slack in the following year, and make more of your education. If you're in the lowest 5-10% of your class, are you really going to take your degree to the fullest? Are you even going to FINISH your degree?

If you're going to drop out anyways, why is the government giving you a refund on your tuition? That's not right. The refund is to help pay for your education: Not for the dropout's refund, or for the 4-average student spending money on booze 6 days out of 7 (Sunday's a day of rest, remember?) Because let's be honest! A significant number of people getting $1600 back, are going to be dropouts or just scraping by, unless someone can prove otherwise by showing me stats that say dropouts and poor performing students only come from wealthy families making over $160K / year.

1) People are forgetting OSAP exists and taks care of alot of these problems. Grade based gets really complicated but you should be passing your courses at least. Im sure OSAP has rues about elegibity and being on academic probabtion.
2) It takes into consideration family size and how many kids are currently in post -sec education
3) So your parents are making over 160K and they arent helping you? Well lifes suck doesnt it? If anything you can get a kind of emancipation, I know someone who did.
4) Its not fair that the rebates should be a based on your actually tuition, I dont even know how to argure agianst that

Originally Posted by mike_302

If you're going to drop out anyways, why is the government giving you a refund on your tuition? That's not right. The refund is to help pay for your education: Not for the dropout's refund, or for the 4-average student spending money on booze 6 days out of 7 (Sunday's a day of rest, remember?) Because let's be honest! A significant number of people getting $1600 back, are going to be dropouts or just scraping by, unless someone can prove otherwise by showing me stats that say dropouts and poor performing students only come from wealthy families making over $160K / year.

So you ask for stats to argue against without providing any which back up your statements?

I find it hard to believe that a large portion of drop outs is because their family is poor unless every student in that situation has to maintain a job to support their education. And if they do, then this rebate makes even more sense for those students as it allows them to concentrate on their studies instead of spending 100+ hours making that 1.6K.

Also, the academic problems of a student doesn't mean they are partying everyday. I know a bunch of people that party and still maintain good averages and on the other hand I know people that work very hard but still can't manage to get a decent average.

I have not made any statements to those points: I do not believe that partying necessarily means bad grades, nor do I believe poor = dropout. I mean those cases could be taken out of the eligibility for the refund.

Heck, give the partying student the $1600 rebate if he's in the top {insert grade cutoff here}% of his/her class. And give the poor student their fair share of the refund money if they also meet the grade criteria. Don't give the poor kid or the partying student the refund if they don't meet the grade criteria in a 2 year window... Simple as that.

The other argument I foresee is "Well he/she has to work, so their grades are low! So they just get screwed by your proposed plan." My response to that: Tough luck. If you're going to graduate with a 3 or 4 average, but you're going to keep McDonalds on your resume for 4 years, what's your degree going to do for you anyways? Don't tell me 3 or 4 averages don't mean you didn't learn anything... If you've worked throughout your time here to pay for school, and all you could manage was a 3 or 4 average because you worked your butt off to pay for school, you didn't take much away from your degree. Would anyone disagree? Maybe I'm wrong... Maybe a 3 or 4 average and working at the golden arches for 4 years in between and after classes means you learned lots and you'll be a great benefit to society... What do I know...?