your right, how dare students ask for money when they're not working. terrible people. only if everyone were like you jajas, the world would be a perfect place.
We can and need to do better. Ontario students pay the highest tuition fees in the Country. One would think that higher tuition = higher quality of education, but this is not the case. We have the largest student to professor ratio in the nation. The ratio of students to faculty affects students' class sizes, course selection and programme offerings, student-teacher interaction and research opportunities for students.
If you are struggling to pay tuition fees, show your support for equitable access to education on February 1st. JOIN our student-led rally outside MUSC at 11am!
to play devil's advocate, our tuition rates compared to some other places (especially the united states) are far cheaper. i find the $800 grant very generous actually and on top of bursaries and grants from the government from osap, you really do save quite a bit that you never have to pay back. lets start being a little more appreciative and a little less "omg i want more money". no one will be happy till tuition is free.. lets be real here
I'm happy that you received the grant, I did too. But 44% of OSAP recipients didn't - and this isn't fair. Much of the exclusion criteria used in this grant is arbitrary and not based on student needs. It's not about "omg I want more money" - It's about creating a more equitable education landscape and increasing access
to play devil's advocate, our tuition rates compared to some other places (especially the united states) are far cheaper. i find the $800 grant very generous actually and on top of bursaries and grants from the government from osap, you really do save quite a bit that you never have to pay back. lets start being a little more appreciative and a little less "omg i want more money". no one will be happy till tuition is free.. lets be real here
Easy for the guy in the third-lowest tuition bracket to say. If I was paying 79.6% of what I was paying now and in school for only four years, I probably wouldn't be complaining as hard either.
On an unrelated note, looking at this page again I didn't realize how little of a discrepancy there is between faculties. Arts and Science, Health Sci, Humanities, Nursing, Science, and Soc Sci are share the same four-level tuition brackets. Commerce, Eng, and the Eng-related B. Tech and Comp Sci are all in higher brackets. If you're lucky enough to be in Eng, you also get the pleasure of taking (and paying for) more units a year too, and possibly taking a fifth year.
Thank god I'm not on res/paying rent on top of that. For Eng students who are, I have a newfound appreciation for your dedication.
I thought the spread would be a little wider, since I assume Science (including Health Sci and Arts and Sci) students have to use similar facilities and equipment that we do, but...nope, it costs them the same as it costs a Soc Sci student.
And because of how Mac (and other universities?) price tuition, it costs engineers more to take the exact same classes that Humanities students take.
Maybe MacAttk isn't as wrong as I thought. I'm now a little less upset at high tuition rates, and more upset at the fact that for some reason, my faculty pays about 25% more than almost any other faculty, in addition to taking more courses per year, for often more years, and paying more for the same courses.
...Does anyone else think this is some f'ed up stuff? Actually, maybe this topic deserves its own thread.
And because of how Mac (and other universities?) price tuition, it costs engineers more to take the exact same classes that Humanities students take.
Maybe MacAttk isn't as wrong as I thought. I'm now a little less upset at high tuition rates, and more upset at the fact that for some reason, my faculty pays about 25% more than almost any other faculty, in addition to taking more courses per year, for often more years, and paying more for the same courses.
...Does anyone else think this is some f'ed up stuff? Actually, maybe this topic deserves its own thread.
Someone from MES will be able to provide a better explanation but the Faculty of Engineering is very much distinct in every set of the way. All engineers graduating are "accredited" so their degree is different from every random Science or SocSci Graduate, in a way it's almost a Professional degree...other professional degrees like Law and Medicine have much much higher tuition fees. Both Law and Medicine mind you might seem to be "graduate"/second entry schools in Canada but in countries like England are programs you can enter right after highschool. So the argument I'm making is that the accreditation puts Engineers on a higher plane than other faculties, which I guess also explains the conjecture based "Engineers are almost guaranteed a high paying job after graduation" theme I hear.
Secondly, when Engineers take courses in other Faculty(eg: Economics or Communication Studies) those faculties don't receive the higher tuition fees paid, instead it's the same revenue that any SocSci student would pay for that Econ course.
As for the criticism of the Grant, there are definitely quite a few students left out. It is specifically targeted to benefit a rough bulk of lower-middle class students.
Anyone who is more than four years out of highschool is excluded because the government considers them independent. Which is a negative since some programs like Engineering and MGMT are 5 year ones, however the moment you are considered independent your parental income is no longer taken into consideration and you become eligible for higher levels of OSAP and Ontario Access Grant.
As a McMaster Student though you pay into the MSU, which is responsible for representing your interests at the governmental level. For that purpose the MSU pays into OUSA which is the Ontario Undergraduate Alliance representing over 140,000 students across 10+ student unions in this province. Since the announcement and release of this grant OUSA has been working on a professional level with the government to address the outliers left out of this program for whom a strong case could be made for inclusion(eg: http://www.ousa.ca/2011/12/14/suppor...mber-14-2011/). However, their strategy is different from the group which is running the National Day of Action in that they prefer to provide more evidence based and rational solutions and discussions with the government which has won them a good working relationship over the years.
The MSU is not officially participating in this rally. This rally is not endorsed by the student advocacy group that represents McMaster aka OUSA.
However as a student you are free to attend this and I would encourage you to do so with an open mind; but remember that there are many sides to a story and as McMaster students we should strive to establish that conclusion. For example the statement that 2/3rds of students are excluded is misleading since their figures include all sorts of groups like Graduate Students(who already have other funding structures), International Students, Law/Medicine Students, Part time students and so on. Similarly there are multiple ways to "lobby"/"advocate"...the rally is one way of investing your limited human capital into amongst others.
@Entropy: You are right that the Textbook and Technology Grant seemed like an odd thing to cut since it was given to everyone. The MSU is going to be starting up a postcard/letter writing campaign in the next couple of weeks asking the Ministry to reconsider that specific grant, you'll hear more about it on MI/MUSC/MSU Website
__________________ Huzaifa Saeed BA Hon, Political Science & Sociology, Class of 2013
MSU Vice President Education '12/13
Last edited by huzaifa47 : 01-22-2012 at 02:51 AM.
Entropy, MSU VPEd all say thanks to huzaifa47 for this post.
For example the statement that 2/3rds of students are excluded is misleading since their figures include all sorts of groups like Graduate Students(who already have other funding structures), International Students, Law/Medicine Students, Part time students and so on. Similarly there are multiple ways to "lobby"/"advocate"...the rally is one way of investing your limited human capital into amongst others.
Just to clarify - the document states that 2/3rds of COLLEGE students won't benefit from the grant. This figure does not include "all sorts of groups", as you suggest.
Just to clarify - the document states that 2/3rds of COLLEGE students won't benefit from the grant. This figure does not include "all sorts of groups", as you suggest.
Umm what? This is a direct quote from the document from CFS that you posted: "This grant compounds this problem. Students are concerned that the Liberal tuition fee grant excludes two-thirds of students in Ontario"
__________________ Huzaifa Saeed BA Hon, Political Science & Sociology, Class of 2013
i think im going to go to the office tmrw and find out.... i recieved an email from osap on friday saying my funding has been recalculated... but couldnt find anything on the website
Grant money that you already receive is subtracted from the $1600 that you would get.
Most of the people in the lower income brackets are already receiving grants. (Low Income Family Grant provides a "maximum of $3,000 per academic year" and the Middle Income Family Grant provides a "maximum of $1,200 per academic year") Middle income cutoff is around $60,000.
Now Factor in the "Ontario Access Grant", which sure, is only for first and second year students, but it provides "a maximum of $3,000 per academic year" to students whose families make less than $80,000.
This means that the ONLY PEOPLE who will even see the $1600 are:
a) People who were too lazy to apply for OSAP.
b) People whose parents make between $80,000-$160,000.
Fair indeed. :S
__________________
Elliott O'Brien
Electrical & Biomedical Engineering V
eccentrikkksays thanks to Elliott779 for this post.
I haven't received anything in my inbox...does that mean i'm not eligible?
I emailed the McMaster Student Financial Aid Office last week telling them how I have yet to receive an email from OSAP about my eligibility status for this grant (and therefore asking if this means I am ineligible). They replied the next day and told me that the emails have just started going out to students, and so there is nothing to worry about yet. They also informed me that payments for this grant will be made in early to mid-February!
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