Originally Posted by Taunton

Well, it's my understanding that the university wants to switch over from a plan paid for by the university and contributions of the workers, to a plan paid for via investments... essentially switching from a guaranteed pension to a non-guaranteed pension (non-guaranteed because the final result is based on the performance of investments).

That's something that the University has a right to do in my opinion... it's not cheap to offer a guaranteed pension to all retired employees.

The university has a right to offer it and the union has every right to say no.

You say that the pension plan is costly, but it's not. Remember, the pension as it is structured now did incredibly well for the previous 6 years. In fact, it reaped so much money that that it cost the university $0 for 3 years because it used the fund's profits to provide the university's share of the contributions. It was not a drag on the university in any way.

The only reason it is so "costly" now was that no one planned for a market downturn, which was dumb. Once the economy recovers, the plan will likely return to profitability again, thus reducing the financial burden on the university.

The whole idea of having this massive pool of invested money was to provide investment income that would help sustain the fund during lean economic times, like right now.

This is why the university's argument about the enormous "cost" of the pension is such a load of crap. It's only costly because they treated the market like it would rise forever and spent the money instead of saving it.

Originally Posted by MDCL

All hail callen and adrian for distilling the strike issue for us!

All other opinions are simply misinformation...

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls,"1984" hasn't arrived yet. You got an opinion on why the CAW is striking or why Mac isn't settling..let 'em fly!

...wow

As I explained before when Bobble asked, I was merely talking about other people who were incorrectly explaining the issue.

I said nothing about opinions. This debate is fantastic and I'm not trying to stifle anything.

I salute you for being able to find and navigate that bery fine line in puplic debate...

Opinions are encouraged, but...

Incorrect explanations are poo poo.

I want in on this!

First off, let's dole out a healthy dose of blame to people who are to blame: Dalton McGuinty's Provincial Government.

Instead of doing intelligent things during an economic recession, they decide to increase the minimum wage (with plans to do so again). This means that companies are forced to realign their wage tables, which means that more money is going towards wages. Economics teaches us that this means that there are far fewer jobs available, as other costs will go up as well.

So, the University is then stuck with having to do the same with the thousands of part time employees it hires in every single department on campus. Unfortunately, the University is in a financial quagmire, and has dedicated a lot of its money to hiring full-time professors. This will pay off in the long-run, but in the first year, the costs incurred will be very high.

Basically, everything is more expensive (further documented in the inflation rate... and the Canadian dollar actually deflated some this summer..) thanks to the government's stupid economic policies, and we're in an economic recession that is due to the American recession hitting companies we are all reliant on.

==

Now, I personally think that this strike will not happen. Everyone who is striking is reliant on their pay, and CAW can only afford to give them $150 a week, for a finite number of weeks. This means that mortgage payments, car payments, taxes etc.

We're going to see the strike vote fail, and watch as CAW loses power.

Originally Posted by Taunton

In one line: Stick up for yourself. Don't rely on other people to take care of things that are so important to your life and future.

That's easier said then done Sir! Not everyone has the financial acumen to invest their money and spend time watching the market when they come back home from a full time job. That is exactly why pension plans are a big thing for employers all over the world, even in the backward third world countries you still have pension plans. I wouldn't say they are an employees right per se but it is something that was part of their contract when they signed up for the job.

Mac needs to re-evaluate their policy of gambling(YES that is exactly what it is) investment money on the stock market, heck with the market the way it is right now they are more likely to have gains wagering the money in a poker game!

Putting the money away in stocks is a cheaper option then mutual funds and trust funds, but most importantly if you myopically believe that the market will always go UP then it brings in cheap and often good profits. Which is what happened 2003-2007ish when the market was on a rise. It is very easy to believe that it will go on for ever! But it never does!

That is why they have a right to ask for a stable pension plan

Saul Alinsky had a talent for succinctly summarizing things...there's only 3 groups out there:

The haves.
The have nots.
And the have a little, want a little more.

A big win for some of the fortunate in the third group was defined benefit pension plans.
I don't fault 'em for fightin' for 'em, but they (which includes most of us) ain't gonna keep 'em.

Originally Posted by .:callen:.

...wow

As I explained before when Bobble asked, I was merely talking about other people who were incorrectly explaining the issue.

I said nothing about opinions. This debate is fantastic and I'm not trying to stifle anything.

I lold too

Originally Posted by Ownaginatios

Since we're talking about Canadian Auto Workers on Campus, does anyone find that those big black trucks that drive around campus look just like those Russian trucks in every world war 2 movie that drop communist troops off? I wonder what's actually inside of them :p.

HAHAHAHAH those are supply trucks for the campus dining halls. last time I saw one of those bad boys, they had watermelons and mangoes in them.

Originally Posted by joset2

HAHAHAHAH those are supply trucks for the campus dining halls. last time I saw one of those bad boys, they had watermelons and mangoes in them.

Watermelons and Mangoes overlaying some AK-47s, amirite?

Originally Posted by Ownaginatios

Watermelons and Mangoes overlaying some AK-47s, amirite?

AK-47s? Pffft, not a chance.......Uzis, on the other hand.....

....maybe the support staff is staging a coup d'etat?

What can I do to help strikers and fuel the comedy gold in this thread? Should I bake cookies for them?

I looked on the Titles webpage yesterday and it says that in the event of a strike Titles will remain open.
Also, I will be paying my tuition via e-banking, so will my payment be processed in the event of a strike?

Originally Posted by Rob Mac

I looked on the Titles webpage yesterday and it says that in the event of a strike Titles will remain open.
Also, I will be paying my tuition via e-banking, so will my payment be processed in the event of a strike?

Where did you see this? It would be re-assuring for me.


EDIT: I found it thanks.

"In the event of a CAW 555 strike, Titles Bookstore will remain open to continue to serve McMaster students."

Originally Posted by giftedchick

im still confuzzled

because i dont really want to purchase textbooks until classes start..

i was encouraged to not buy textbooks until after i attended my classes first for a day to see specifically want the prof's wanted.

so does this strike mean u wait longer or u do not receive ur books?

The Bookstore is maintaining regular hours, so your books will all be there.