Originally Posted by jesus

That's like saying many people in the world earn ~$7000/year (World Bank, 2005). They should feel lucky that they get anything at all.

:|

You can't use that because the GDP and the cost of living are different everywhere.

If you make $30000 CAD, you'll likely be below the poverty line in the UK.

The fact of the matter is that you need to be responsible for your retirement. It's simply a perk if your employer is willing to help.

Originally Posted by Taunton

Most people don't get a private pension. They should feel lucky that they get anything at all. It's not the employers fault if these people don't prepare for their retirement.

Agreed.

I'm pretty sure most companies who do offer pensions do invest them. If the market was better, no one would be complaining.

Sorry, I just have a lot of issues with unions in this day in age. I feel that there isn't a huge need for it anymore with all the mandatory workers right and such - unions had their place in the Industrial Revolution and like times, but now, I'm not so sure.

</rant>

Originally Posted by Taunton

You can't use that because the GDP and the cost of living are different everywhere.

If you make $30000 CAD, you'll likely be below the poverty line in the UK.

The fact of the matter is that you need to be responsible for your retirement. It's simply a perk if your employer is willing to help.

Obviously people should save up for retirement, if possible. However, in some cases that isn't possible. For a person working full-time at minimum wage, their salary often isn't enough to support a family without working multiple jobs. So saving for the future is quite difficult when you're struggling to pay the bills/feed your children.

So, hypothetically, if minimum wage were to be clawed back to $5/hour. Your rationale is that since most people make that much, that they shouldn't complain because other people are making the same amount? It's an attitude like this that allows transnational corporations to claw away at salaries and benefits, convert full-time workers to seasonal/temporary workers or ship jobs overseas, and hack away at working conditions.

Originally Posted by jesus

So, hypothetically, if minimum wage were to be clawed back to $5/hour. Your rationale is that since most people make that much, that they shouldn't complain because other people are making the same amount? It's an attitude like this that allows transnational corporations to claw away at salaries and benefits, convert full-time workers to seasonal/temporary workers or ship jobs overseas, and hack away at working conditions.

Minimum wage is a strong determinant in the cost of living. It doesn't matter if it goes up to $20 or down to $1 per hour. The market would adjust simply because it's more or less expensive to provide services.

If someone is working a full time minimum wage job and they can't survive on it, then they need to work to improve their situation. This is something that is challenging, and I fully understand that. At the same time however, it's not necessarily up to the employer to provide anything other than was agreed upon at hiring, or what is mandated by law. If an employer doesn't supply enough in terms of wages or benefits or some combination of both, then people won't/shouldn't work there and the business will fail.

Again, you can't talk about this stuff from an international perspective. The billions of people in east Asia and Africa who live and work for dirt outweigh the millions of people in the West who make decent wages. Furthermore, countries like China and India have lax/no labour laws, which further adds to this problem.

If we look at the situation within Canada alone, then it makes more sense to say "most people don't get X so these people should feel lucky". It's in the corporate/business culture to provide good wages and some benefits to workers here... if the employer chooses not to do so, then the employees have the freedom to leave and find work elsewhere. If it's really that bad, then as I said before, the employer will fail. It's in the employer's best interests to provide decent wages and benefits. Everything else, such as working conditions etc are protected by law here, and are a non-issue.

Originally Posted by michelle

So, a lot of the people I've talked to are holding off on paying tuition. Are a lot of you feeling the same way?

My tuition is paid as a payroll deduction. So strike = Mac doesn't get money.

Originally Posted by Mushaal

In the email sent out to everyone today, it asked as to buy our books. In case of a strike, will all the bookstores be closed or will the working hours just decrease because my textbook list hasn't even been posted on the titles website. I don't see how they expect us to buy our books beforehand.

Same here. The 3 or 4 classes that have been posted for me all have only courseware listed, which usually doesn't get printed until after the first week of classes (at least by my previous experience). Looks like I get to wait in the huge line ups!

Originally Posted by Taunton

... The fact of the matter is that you need to be responsible for your retirement. It's simply a perk if your employer is willing to help.

[Without saying anything else about the strike], I think this is an important fact to point out. Employees usually only get pensions if they work for big companies. Tons of people work for smaller companies (I'm not referring to simply "family owned businesses" or anything like that. Just companies smaller than McMaster) and don't get pensions. There's no law saying that every worker in Ontario/Canada must get a pension. It is a very nice perk though.

And very few CAW members at Mac make minimum wage (if any) so I don't know if there's a point discussing that.

Originally Posted by HeatherH

Sorry if this has been answered..

The CAW members that may strike are the "non academic staff" of the university. That includes the offices of CSD, Career Services, Financial Aid, Student Liaison, Titles, Residences, and many more (I assume this includes La Piazza).

i don't think it will affect La Piazza.

http://www.workingatmcmaster .ca/li...-ee-fast-facts

Hospitality services is under a different union, not the one that might strike. So, at least that's a plus

if the employer chooses not to do so, then the employees have the freedom to leave and find work elsewhere. If it's really that bad, then as I said before, the employer will fail.

*clap clap clap*

Wise you are young jedi...you have learned the free mobility of labour argument quite well. But what is the counter-argument?

Originally Posted by MDCL

*clap clap clap*

Wise you are young jedi...you have learned the free mobility of labour argument quite well. But what is the counter-argument?

LOL I don't know if you're being sarcastic or what... I actually didn't know this argument had a name, and I haven't formally learned much about all this. I'd love to hear what the counter argument is though... I love learning new things!

I like just thinking things through and trying to see them through to their conclusion... this how I form a lot of my arguments (such as the ones I'm using here). Forums are good practice for this sort of thinking, because they don't necessarily demand the references that a formal paper would (for example, I'm obviously not the first person to use this "free mobility of labour argument", but I didn't know it was a formalized theory/argument and I don't know who came up with it).

Does anyone know if CSD is part of this? Cuz... thats not ideal for some of us if they are! :S

I didn't really enjoy how they stated "potential". We're coming close to September 1st and yet people seem very...undecided about this issue. It's sort of like watching politicians give speeches on TV. Very very uncertain.

I personally hope that they don't strike, not simply because of an inconvenience. I really appreciate and am quite grateful to Mac for all the services they offer to students that extend beyond academia and aspired to make use of several of them. I think that for a lot of first years especially we look forward to a great support team to the main academic lineup (if you will such) as Titles and CSD and I think that students who depend on CSD's mental health counselling would certainly argue that this is more than just a minor annoyance to them, however if the counsellors won't strike, my comment is void and I understand that.

Originally Posted by homeskillet

Does anyone know if CSD is part of this? Cuz... thats not ideal for some of us if they are! :S

Yes, it is. Offices that NEED to be open, such as CSD and Titles, will most likely stay open by using non-CAW members. Places that aren't vital (like Campus Tours and Career Services) will be closed.

Originally Posted by Taunton

Minimum wage is a strong determinant in the cost of living. It doesn't matter if it goes up to $20 or down to $1 per hour. The market would adjust simply because it's more or less expensive to provide services.

I disagree. Minimum Wage != Living Wage.

If someone is working a full time minimum wage job and they can't survive on it, then they need to work to improve their situation. This is something that is challenging, and I fully understand that. At the same time however, it's not necessarily up to the employer to provide anything other than was agreed upon at hiring, or what is mandated by law. If an employer doesn't supply enough in terms of wages or benefits or some combination of both, then people won't/shouldn't work there and the business will fail.

The problem with that, as examined in No Logo by Naomi Klein, is that although parents are unable to live off of minimum wage. There are tons of teens/students who are looking for extra cash who can fill these positions. Therefore, the business will not fail.

If we look at the situation within Canada alone, then it makes more sense to say "most people don't get X so these people should feel lucky". It's in the corporate/business culture to provide good wages and some benefits to workers here... if the employer chooses not to do so, then the employees have the freedom to leave and find work elsewhere. If it's really that bad, then as I said before, the employer will fail. It's in the employer's best interests to provide decent wages and benefits. Everything else, such as working conditions etc are protected by law here, and are a non-issue.

Sure there are minimum standards for working conditions thanks to the WSIB; however, if there's a complaint then workers can often get fired for it afterwards. A McDonald's employee in BC reported the manager for verbally abusing an elderly employee. Not surprisingly, a few weeks after, the employee was let go.

A lot of retail employees don't get paid for all the extra work that they do. When I worked at bluenotes, my shift was officially finished at 9; however, management often made us stay for 30 min to 1 hour after close to "clean". We weren't paid for this. This is a fairly common occurrence.

Sorry about the delay in response, work called :p

This will sound stupid, but does anyone know the major issues the union is trying to cover with the school (i.e. pension, days off, vacation pay, etc.)??? Strikes seem to be popping up all over the place lol...