Originally Posted by mattgood9

religion = root of all evil imho

I would tend to agree except that it must be deeper than that.
There are some evil atheists so evil cannot be solely rooted in religion. I think that human nature is the root of all evil. Humans take any worldview and twist it for evil.
Why Christians should drop their religion.
from here http://redeemer.com/connect/skeptics_welcome/

The only time when I was mildly uncomfortable with religion on campus was when I was trying to set up for an event on campus - and had to grab stuff from the Clubspace locker. There was a group praying in there and I had the impression that I was intruding. If you don't want to be interrupted, please don't pick a high traffic area.

While the C4C people can be annoying i understand what they are doing. Its like if you have this awesome flavour of ice cream and you are like hey you should try this ice cream its awesome. Sure the ice cream may not before everyone but why would you not want to try to share it with other people who might get some enjoyment out of it.

as i've said in other threads: many people are hyper sensitive when religion comes up.

truly, god is the best flavour of ice cream. if only the cone that it came in didn't have that paper wrapper of hypocrisy, death deceit and arrogance.

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

Gym is currently ideal, except when Athrec holds their event bookings and somehow fail to account for the fact that Friday's 1:30-2:30 is always prayer time and they have no other place. :S

LOL....Gym isn't a church...people should be happy the Athletics center is willing to let them use it for prayer. How can you even suggest the ATHLETICS facilties should take into account prayer time when making schedules.

Originally Posted by Atethrie

truly, god is the best flavour of ice cream. if only the cone that it came in didn't have that paper wrapper of hypocrisy, death deceit and arrogance.

Thats a wicked quote; did you come up with it yourself?

depends on where you lick him...ok that's just wrong now.

Originally Posted by cocchiarella

While the C4C people can be annoying i understand what they are doing. Its like if you have this awesome flavour of ice cream and you are like hey you should try this ice cream its awesome. Sure the ice cream may not before everyone but why would you not want to try to share it with other people who might get some enjoyment out of it.

as i've said in other threads: many people are hyper sensitive when religion comes up.

I totally understand the ice cream reference, with one minor exception:

If someone told me they had just discovered the best flavour of ice cream ever, and not only is it delicious, but it can also walk on water, and after I eat it it will magically re-appear in my freezer for future enjoyment, I would call b/s on that.

Originally Posted by sniderj

I totally understand the ice cream reference

Apparently you don't...

Cocchiarella's not saying God is ice cream...anything would sound stupid if you reduced it to something that ridiculous... Example:

"Cell division? That's stupid. It's like an ice cream cone magically splitting into two ice cream cones, and then growing back into full size ones, only to do it again. I'd call BS on that." Of course cells are not ice cream cones and this argument looks crazy. Likewise God (or in that case, Jesus?) is not an ice cream cone.

The ice cream analogy isn't meant to be an analogy for Christianity. It's an analogy for the behaviour of C4C. The "in your face preaching" style, according to the analogy, is an attempt at sharing. In keeping with the analogy, maybe the ice cream has pecans and the other people have a nut allergy...so naturally they resist the ice cream and just refuse to go anywhere near it. Others who like pecans are open and accepting of it.

So Cocchiarella's point (if I understand it correctly) is that, while we may or may not agree with the methods of the C4C, they have good intentions and want what's best for the people they preach to. Whether or not it is in fact the best is a different discussion entirely...but they want (ideally)what's best for everyone. They're simply following through with their gut feelings regarding what is best.

Originally Posted by jo87

LOL....Gym isn't a church...people should be happy the Athletics center is willing to let them use it for prayer. How can you even suggest the ATHLETICS facilties should take into account prayer time when making schedules.

Whoa, I'm glad you said it. Here I thought I was the only one who was thinking that...

Originally Posted by jo87

LOL....Gym isn't a church...people should be happy the Athletics center is willing to let them use it for prayer. How can you even suggest the ATHLETICS facilties should take into account prayer time when making schedules.

That is a rather ignorant comment. According to several University Senate laws, the Canadian charter of rights & official commitments by the university administration access to prayer space is something they are bound to provide to all the students who actively practice religion. The fact of the matter is that they have no set aside space for that service & it goes against the mandate of their Student Affair's department committee for building inclusive communities on campus.

The facility is also by law "Athletics & Recreation" and is owned by the administration; hence your argument is null that they should feel "special" that they are provided space in the gym in the first place. They are simply providing a temporary solution for something they are supposed to provide concrete facilities for in the first place.

In a more rational economic reasoning McMaster also is trying its level best to build relationships & obtain rich donors from the Middle East like other North American Universities. Case & point being the recent donation by the Emir of Sharjah(UAE); but it will not look good if a group of 200-300 people are seen praying outdoors in negative weather because Athrec magically canceled the bookings they made at the start of the year.

It would also go against the recent Canadian higher education plan that wants to place higher emphasis on attracting more international students to Canada. Canada lags far far behind USA in terms of that and it is better for future progress of Canadian society to be attracting international students compared to immigrants with foreign education. However McMaster won't be an attractive destination if people hear from their networks that there is no available prayer space whereas Uoft has a specific Inter Faith Center. Though obviously comparing Uoft to Mac is not that strong an argument but its a comparison.

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

That is a rather ignorant comment. According to several University Senate laws, the Canadian charter of rights & official commitments by the university administration access to prayer space is something they are bound to provide to all the students who actively practice religion. The fact of the matter is that they have no set aside space for that service & it goes against the mandate of their Student Affair's department committee for building inclusive communities on campus.

The facility is also by law "Athletics & Recreation" and is owned by the administration; hence your argument is null that they should feel "special" that they are provided space in the gym in the first place. They are simply providing a temporary solution for something they are supposed to provide concrete facilities for in the first place.

In a more rational economic reasoning McMaster also is trying its level best to build relationships & obtain rich donors from the Middle East like other North American Universities. Case & point being the recent donation by the Emir of Sharjah(UAE); but it will not look good if a group of 200-300 people are seen praying outdoors in negative weather because Athrec magically canceled the bookings they made at the start of the year.

It would also go against the recent Canadian higher education plan that wants to place higher emphasis on attracting more international students to Canada. Canada lags far far behind USA in terms of that and it is better for future progress of Canadian society to be attracting international students compared to immigrants with foreign education. However McMaster won't be an attractive destination if people hear from their networks that there is no available prayer space whereas Uoft has a specific Inter Faith Center. Though obviously comparing Uoft to Mac is not that strong an argument but its a comparison.

You know you use so much fluff to prove your points, so over the top. Anyways Athletics center should first offer what it was intended for, then if there is space maybe for special events or prayer. If McMaster really wanted to accomodate prayer space, they would make space Just for THAT. Athletics should not have to work around other peoples schedules and it's very rude to blame scheduling for taking up prayer time. A student who can't play basket ball because of prayer time can argue the same thing.
Not all international students need prayer spaces, those that really need it can go to University of Toronto and others who don't care can go to McMaster. Problem solved.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

Apparently you don't...

Cocchiarella's not saying God is ice cream...anything would sound stupid if you reduced it to something that ridiculous... Example:

"Cell division? That's stupid. It's like an ice cream cone magically splitting into two ice cream cones, and then growing back into full size ones, only to do it again. I'd call BS on that." Of course cells are not ice cream cones and this argument looks crazy. Likewise God (or in that case, Jesus?) is not an ice cream cone.

The ice cream analogy isn't meant to be an analogy for Christianity. It's an analogy for the behaviour of C4C. The "in your face preaching" style, according to the analogy, is an attempt at sharing. In keeping with the analogy, maybe the ice cream has pecans and the other people have a nut allergy...so naturally they resist the ice cream and just refuse to go anywhere near it. Others who like pecans are open and accepting of it.

So Cocchiarella's point (if I understand it correctly) is that, while we may or may not agree with the methods of the C4C, they have good intentions and want what's best for the people they preach to. Whether or not it is in fact the best is a different discussion entirely...but they want (ideally)what's best for everyone. They're simply following through with their gut feelings regarding what is best.

This is exactly what i meant. I necessarily agree with what they are saying. I'm just saying that they arent trying to bother you.

politicians, marketing people, advertisements all do the same thing.

Originally Posted by jo87

You know you use so much fluff to prove your points, so over the top. Anyways Athletics center should first offer what it was intended for, then if there is space maybe for special events or prayer. If McMaster really wanted to accomodate prayer space, they would make space Just for THAT. Athletics should not have to work around other peoples schedules and it's very rude to blame scheduling for taking up prayer time. A student who can't play basket ball because of prayer time can argue the same thing.

Regardless, McMaster is obligated to provide such a space even by its own proclamations. If the gym is booked for some event the Ath-rec centre shouldn't double book it and kick the people who booked it first out. Shouldn't they honour their agreement?? If I booked some room for an event and was subsequently kicked out for whatever reason, I wouldn't be a happy camper.

Originally Posted by jo87

Not all international students need prayer spaces, those that really need it can go to University of Toronto and others who don't care can go to McMaster. Problem solved.

What if they don't get into U of T? I know you are probably just being cheeky but still... problem unsolved

Originally Posted by jo87

If McMaster really wanted to accomodate prayer space, they would make space Just for THAT.

Athletics should not have to work around other peoples schedules and it's very rude to blame scheduling for taking up prayer time.

A student who can't play basket ball because of prayer time can argue the same thing.

Not all international students need prayer spaces, those that really need it can go to University of Toronto and others who don't care can go to McMaster. Problem solved.

You can call it fluff or whatever you want but atleast I'm not arguing based on my biased & close minded opinions and nothing else.

#1 They quite simply do not have space for that on campus.

#2 The prayer space was booked for the exact same timespot for the entire year in August.

#3 Booking off one gym ONCE a week for 2 hours what is supposed to be a intrinsic human right(The Right to perform one's religious obligations) still leaves 6 other courts off the top of my head that are still available for the kid who wants to play basketball. Similarly the kid can probably do without playing Basketball from 12-2 on a Friday morning, he can come back anytime in the week.

#4 Yes they can go to Uoft but the University needs those International kids to keep up with the competition and to secure the government funding.

We can continue this if you want but with each passing post you are showing how illogical your stance is