Originally Posted by Kathy2

The Comp Lit program is also being phased out. One of my friends who has been here for 4 years studying Comp Lit now has to graduate with a degree in English.

Did you know Mac used to be one of the best schools in Canada for Political Science? Now look at it.

Why are they doing this to the Humanities and Social Sciences :(

I will sign this petition for sure! Right now, the website is giving me an error though.

That doesn't sound like phasing out (generally that would mean those who were already in the program would finish in it), but more like suddenly ending it.

Originally Posted by Kathy2

Lots of programs are getting phased out to provide money for other general programs (ie. Engineering or Health Science)

....



PEW PEW PEW!

Just a side note - it isnt just Humanities that is hit hard by recession and lack of funds at Mac alot of Biology courses and pretty much all faculties are getting hit hard, for example

The Cell Biology course (Bio 2B03) which is mandatory for thousands of students on campus Lost its lab component and went from 18 TAs to 5 TAs, which i think also pretty much meant the chances of invigilating midterms was low and thus the course outline became rather unbalanced.

Cut effect all of us, and smaller programs are usually the onces that get hit the hardest, and i do agree that its sad, but you see classes being cancelled all over or being offered in alternate years.

I think the bigger idea here is do we do the program better than anyone else?

If a school has a lot of programs, is just flakes around. If your program isnt "innovative" or pushing the area forward, or isnt getting industry to donate tons of cash, it should be phased out. I know it sucks, but don't think of the "art history" community as just being at McMaster. If more schools drop the program, you will get the best of the best being condensed into the schools that are strong in that program. Specialize in what you do best!

In my mind McMaster should get rid of a large number of programs, and focus in on a few big areas. Unfortunately for the arts, science seems to be what McMaster is doing better. Switching to an all science school is obviously bad, but some of the smaller programs should probably get cut if they arent leaders in the field (including the science based ones).

From what I have heard, the Art History program is like a girl you should break up with. Sure she is hot, sweet, and you have a lot of fun together. In the long run, you have separate goals and interests, and they don't match up. You don't break up because you like being with her, but in the end you will have to break up. Why torture yourself with this impending doom? Just break up before you get more attached and move on.

I support the arts 100%, but I think schools that try to do everything just end up spreading themselves so thin that they start turning up the suck. Phase out the program and allow students and professors who want to study the subject to change schools. Concentrate all that greatness in another school that is a leader in the field.

To be honest, I've heard that the lab component was useless anyway for 2B03. It was nice as a way to boost marks, but you didn't learn any important skills. I was personally really happy with the way the course was run last semester.

The lack of midterms this semester is not about the number of TA's, we ran them last semester with 5 TAs. It was just a decision made by the prof. Its kindof stupid that profs will run the course differently between terms, but there isn't much you can do about that.

This totally blows. D:

Soc Sci & Humanitiesss,
<3.

For those of you who did not attend the open forum for the arts today, held by your Soc Sci and Humanities SRA caucus', we had at least 20 art history students who came out along with the associate dean of humanities. There was a lot of back and forth discussion on the lack of communication between the deans and students and most felt as if they were left in the dark during the entire situation. If any students have issues with the subject then e-mail your humanities reps on the SRA. They will be giving all questions to the VP Education who will be taking the questions/concerns to higher bodies that regular students have trouble accessing.

It was great to see the concern of students on this issue and reminds me of the Gerentology issue last year. Fight for what you believe in

What is the current status of this issue? Is it at the Undergrad Council? Senate? What did the Associate Dean say about the issue? Is the Humanities Dean really in hiding and avoiding all contact with students?

Originally Posted by zeChinaman

What is the current status of this issue? Is it at the Undergrad Council? Senate? What did the Associate Dean say about the issue? Is the Humanities Dean really in hiding and avoiding all contact with students?

The motion to phase out the Art History program passed Undergraduate Council on Monday. The issue now goes onto the University Planning Committee in March and Senate in April where the final decision will be made.

UC was really animated on Monday. A lot of Art History students came out and spoke out against the motion. An Art History prof got into it with the Associate Dean and there were some colourful words exchanged. The Associate Dean spoke vaguely about the issues that have led to the closure and we're still not sure what all the reasons are. The students involved with the issue are really concerned with the complete lack of communication that has gone on and we're trying to voice this opinion to the upper administration.

A focus group made up of art history students and student government members is meeting every week to discuss the issue and plan appropriate action.

I don't really understand what all the fuss is about. What is it that you specifically need an Art History degree to do?

Has anyone been able to provide a substantial argument as to why to keep it?

Originally Posted by waddlesworth

I don't really understand what all the fuss is about. What is it that you specifically need an Art History degree to do?

Has anyone been able to provide a substantial argument as to why to keep it?

^ This. Seems like one of those fields that works as a cycle (as in graduates of it probably become professors in it).

Originally Posted by waddlesworth

I don't really understand what all the fuss is about. What is it that you specifically need an Art History degree to do?

Has anyone been able to provide a substantial argument as to why to keep it?

Read the Article in the Sil by a Art History Prof for all the info http://thesil.ca/blog/opinions/an-op...y-full-version

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

Read the Article in the Sil by a Art History Prof for all the info http://thesil.ca/blog/opinions/an-op...y-full-version

So because I think its phasing out is a good idea it makes me a troll? Thanks. (but fair enough. It was my first post after all). I was just asking if anyone can describe the kind of value which an art history degree can bring to society.

That was an interesting letter, but not very convincing. It was more or less just a rant with some potshots aimed towards the studio arts program. Karli Strohschein's response is a good read.

Its not like they're taking the money and giving it to engineering and science and becoming "less cultured" as some people have suggested. They're diverting funds to the fine arts program which definitely seems like a better idea. Creating art>>knowing about art.

I disagree on that notion. Fine arts programs in Ontario are the domain of OCAD and Sheridan. They have a competitive advantage, and have established, excellent programs. Since Fine Arts is more vocational, I would say that I'd prefer it being in such an institution to allow students to fully realize their potential.

Mac has a history of cutting off funding to its cooler programs before the programs can truly reach an excellent stage. Theatre & Film, and Multimedia are two examples of programs that should kick total ass, but are unfortunately held back because of the political nature of academia. Students are left up to their own devices, and more often than not I see students from Ryerson, Sheridan, Western MIT, and OCAD producing stuff that is better (on average) since their schools focus a lot more attention on programs.

It's really shitty, because a lot of super talented people come to Mac for these programs and end up spending more time on a double major because the stuff done within the program isn't sufficient enough.

--
The prof makes some good points as well, the Humanities Dean is notorious for having a closed door, and refusing to communicate with students and faculty, preferring to leave that upto the Associate Dean and Program Chairs.

Due process should have been followed, and its utter bullshit that professors feel forced out by their bosses, and are not told about the futures of their programs. Moreover, Art History is an important program for Mac, as evidenced by the MMA and the art scene of Hamilton.

There is an inherent advantage to a good Art History program with adequate funding and resources.

What Karli Strohschein said follows this logic (not that she understood it). The Art History classes she had were not the best. It's because year-to-year funding is being cut, and Profs who 5 years ago had a lot to work with, now have next to nothing.

I don't buy her argument about fine arts. I have had friends LEAVE that program because it did not offer as much opportunity as a college program. McMaster is not a vocational school, and so there are a lot of theory based stuff that doesn't help someone who wants to pursue Fine Art as a career. Instead, Mac is trying to give opportunities to those who want to pursue careers in Fine Art Academia -- something that is greatly aided by a Post-Grad Art History program.

--
The best point the prof made was about Mac coming up with gimmicky programs without following proper processes. We see this in all faculties -- the rapid restructure of gerontology, the brand new Social Psych program which seems redundant with the decent Pyschology department, the Integrated Science program, a very unplanned BTech program etc.

These are great ideas for programs which are being done on the fly to capitalize on the changing economy. Some can be great programs in the future, but with a huge operating deficit, Mac is making stupid decisions that aren't carefully weighed.

Originally Posted by waddlesworth

So because I think its phasing out is a good idea it makes me a troll? Thanks. (but fair enough. It was my first post after all). I was just asking if anyone can describe the kind of value which an art history degree can bring to society.

Lol that was random nonsense caused by spending too much time lurking 4chan these days & The first post bit! I took it off immediately though!