Yeah they do, I've had to book'em before. It's nuts. Just like putting banners up in there, you have to do it weeks, sometimes months in advance depending on the time you want.

The MSU has an interesting habit of treating students like children, while also expecting those children to respect their elders and play nice. All MSU Members are Adults and should be treated as such. They pay for all the services the MSU provides. When one of those services fails as epically as Quarters has, the MSU and its leadership (that would be the Execs and SRA) should expect some harsh criticisms.

What you call a belligerent rant is still ripe with critiques you can action. Anonymous was critical of the long wait times for service, the poor food quality, and the smell of the establishment. These are reasonable complaints. What would you consider “constructive criticism,” a detailed plan as to how to fix these issues? Surely with the might of the entire SRA behind it you can come up with ideas.

If Matt’s a leading force for garnering student opinion, then the MSU is patronizing students. Matt brushed off a legitimate, albeit harshly worded, critique and responded with a rather pretentious attitude. In the real world, when politicians fail epically, they get criticised harshly. You guys lost half a million dollars and are not even providing service on Saturdays anymore! This alone seems worthy of harsh criticism.

I’m a part time ski pro and I use constructive criticism to help the kids learn to improve their skills. I’m also politically active, but when a politician says something or does something stupid… like say blow half a million dollars on a failed program, I don’t beat around the bush to point out how wrong they were and how they should spend the money on more worthwhile programs, I give them harsh criticism. This is what the SRA should expect. Matt (and all SRA members) should get down off their high horses and admit they screwed up. Then, and only then, can they start to try and garner honest feedback and try to make things better.

As for getting Commerce students involved, it has been made clear to me by SRA members that although Students are free to voice their opinion, a Commerce class will not be hired as a group project. As Andrew points out, there would be nothing stopping a group of Commerce students from surveying in the Student Centre. You don’t need a table to walk around handing out surveys. However, this is irrelevant since the planning and implementation will be done over the summer when there aren’t many students around. Like so many large budgetary items the MSU passes, they’ll do it over the summer while no students are around who might be belligerent.

Why get student input on things they won’t like right? I mean, they’re just ignorant students… they’re only going to be belligerent… they won’t make any constructive comments… let’s just spend the money without consulting them… oh, 1st years don’t matter… they’re not here yet anyway.

If only the Sil taped all SRA meetings, it might at least be more amusing (you never know who might refuse to participate because of their “rights”).

Word Alex. Word.

Originally Posted by Alex McColl

The MSU has an interesting habit of treating students like children, while also expecting those children to respect their elders and play nice. All MSU Members are Adults and should be treated as such. They pay for all the services the MSU provides. When one of those services fails as epically as Quarters has, the MSU and its leadership (that would be the Execs and SRA) should expect some harsh criticisms.

What you call a belligerent rant is still ripe with critiques you can action. Anonymous was critical of the long wait times for service, the poor food quality, and the smell of the establishment. These are reasonable complaints. What would you consider “constructive criticism,” a detailed plan as to how to fix these issues? Surely with the might of the entire SRA behind it you can come up with ideas.

If Matt’s a leading force for garnering student opinion, then the MSU is patronizing students. Matt brushed off a legitimate, albeit harshly worded, critique and responded with a rather pretentious attitude. In the real world, when politicians fail epically, they get criticised harshly. You guys lost half a million dollars and are not even providing service on Saturdays anymore! This alone seems worthy of harsh criticism.

I’m a part time ski pro and I use constructive criticism to help the kids learn to improve their skills. I’m also politically active, but when a politician says something or does something stupid… like say blow half a million dollars on a failed program, I don’t beat around the bush to point out how wrong they were and how they should spend the money on more worthwhile programs, I give them harsh criticism. This is what the SRA should expect. Matt (and all SRA members) should get down off their high horses and admit they screwed up. Then, and only then, can they start to try and garner honest feedback and try to make things better.

As for getting Commerce students involved, it has been made clear to me by SRA members that although Students are free to voice their opinion, a Commerce class will not be hired as a group project. As Andrew points out, there would be nothing stopping a group of Commerce students from surveying in the Student Centre. You don’t need a table to walk around handing out surveys. However, this is irrelevant since the planning and implementation will be done over the summer when there aren’t many students around. Like so many large budgetary items the MSU passes, they’ll do it over the summer while no students are around who might be belligerent.

Why get student input on things they won’t like right? I mean, they’re just ignorant students… they’re only going to be belligerent… they won’t make any constructive comments… let’s just spend the money without consulting them… oh, 1st years don’t matter… they’re not here yet anyway.

If only the Sil taped all SRA meetings, it might at least be more amusing (you never know who might refuse to participate because of their “rights”).

I truly admire the irony of you pointing out that Quarters needs student input.

Aside from your thinly veiled attempt to personally attack Ian Finlay, I don't really understand the need for your post. Matt has a history of lambasting Quarters' operations, and if you care to search through these forums, I am sure that would be offered ample evidence that Matt is not on some sort of high horse due to his election onto the SRA.

First of all, I don't understand your argument about the SRA. No wait. There is none other than to criticize a member who joined the SRA in February for events which occured in the 2007/2008 school year.

Secondly, you make comments that are backed with bold assumptions. You do not attend McMaster, so how do you know what is going on, and what isn't. One of your criticisms is that there is a general unavailability of information from the MSU, yet you sit at your computer, in a different city, trying to throw blame at anyone who posts.

Thirdly, you persist with your plan involving getting Commerce students in to audit Quarters, without considering the some vital things.
A portion of the money going into the Quarters renovation is from Student Services Committee. As you should be well aware, this money is a one-time offer, made under the restriction that it is used within the coming fiscal year.
To get a group in for this would take until atleast September, and for them to produce their report, and get it checked by a professor would take until December.
Next, the process would likely require organizational structure changes that would take a while to implement.
Finally, I forsee Quarters being closed down during the time some of the changes would be implemented, and that would either require us to close Quarters during the Winter Term, or wait till the next summer, and then not have the money pledged by Student Services.

We do not have the time. Moreover, we do not need to go through a formal process to figure out what is wrong. I am under the impression that you believe the SRA, the BOD, Quarters staff etc do not have contact with students. In fact, they do. I personally have stopped random students inside, and outside of Quarters to ask them what they would change. This is what I have been told by numerous people:

1. Lack of speed and quality of service
2. Low quality of food
3. Fix entrance problems on Thursday nights
4. Perceptions of bouncer negativity
5. Bad music
6. Overall atmosphere
7. Lack of promotion

Next, I went and talked to a lot of staff, who also had a lot to chime in on the issue, especially the quality of service and food. They attributed a lot of the problems to the lack of experience in some of their fellow employees, or a lack of experience in themselves.

Finally, I personally went and talked to a group who is doing an E-Commerce Marketing project on Quarters and it's online business model, and they said that while they focused on the Quarters website, they did have interesting insight into some of the problems they have noticed, as pertaining to the service. They are writing up some things and giving this to Ian, to pass to the SRA.

Basically, an informal information collection process is occurring.

This is something that IS happening in a proper manner, albeit a little informally. Could you please stop with your negative accusations, it is not conducive to anything more than decently articulated trolling.

I do not think it's fair to just throw all the blame on the SRA or the BoD. I am pretty sure the issue of Quarters' deficit requires time for assessment and evaluation. The only way to come up with an effective solution is to look into what went wrong and gather information. A number of students seem to simply throw the blame on certain others without looking into what's being done to resolve this issue. I just think there's too much finger pointing going on regarding this issue and it's unnecessary. Take The Sil for example...Instead of writing articles attacking or blaming others, perhaps they can look into writing articles with ways to reach out to students about issues such as this. That way students can be aware and can provide feedback for these issues. These students ARE the customers at Quarters and if concerns that they have are addressed, Quarters will make it back from this predicament. Resources like The Sil would be very useful in providing that communication link; it is the campus newspaper after all.

It should be called dimes...

Originally Posted by deadpool

Aside from your thinly veiled attempt to personally attack Ian Finlay, I don't really understand the need for your post.

Well, at least you understand the need to make thinly veiled attacks against Mr. Finlay. For those of you who don't:

"Speaker read a note from Mr. Finlay stating that he would not participate in a meeting that is being recorded by an audio device, as his rights have been limited." -Middle of page 2 http://www.msumcmaster.ca/content/do...(approved).pdf

Nothing quite says 'honest government' like refusing to be taped at public meetings by the student newspaper.

Alex, anyone can object to being recorded by electronic device for reasons they are not personally required to disclose. If Mr Finlay were intent on avoiding being recorded he would have a problem with minutes being taken as well.

I also dislike your tone implying Mr Finlay has attempted to avoid oversight or scrutiny seeing as how he is the first VP Finance in years to have our audited statements prepared and presented before the deadline imposed in our bylaws and have a budget ready for presentation to the Executive Board before the deadline as well. These are but two large reflections on the seriousness of which he takes his job.

Alex, if you are serious about calling Mr Finlay out, come to an SRA meeting I would gladly differ my speaking rights to you, if for nothing but to hear your gripping oratory and wit. What better place indeed than the most public of forums and records.

But let's leave that at that shall we and return to the issue of Quarters? Bygones are bygones no? This thread was created as one method of gathering input and the input we get from students here will prove invaluable and I fear as though if we deviate with personal grudges too long the issue will be lost, to the detriment of student needs no?

Hey Alex, I have had enough of this. If you truely have a problem come say it to my face. You are nothing more than a bitter person with nothing better to do than to whine and moan about something that has nothing to do with you. Again, come call me out in person, stop hiding behind your computer.

P.S. there is a meeting this sunday at 2:30pm in GH room 111. Come call me out if you would like, if not then its not worth posting on macinsiders.

Originally Posted by Ian Finlay

Hey Alex, I have had enough of this. If you truely have a problem come say it to my face. You are nothing more than a bitter person with nothing better to do than to whine and moan about something that has nothing to do with you. Again, come call me out in person, stop hiding behind your computer.

Ladies and gentlemen, our VP Finance...

As for Quarters (as has probably been said) leave its name and let's improve the service and the locale. It's too dark in there and also it seems very "grungy." Unfortunately it's underground so I'm not sure exactly how much more light you'd be able to get in there.

Originally Posted by Ian Finlay

Hey Alex, I have had enough of this. If you truely have a problem come say it to my face. You are nothing more than a bitter person with nothing better to do than to whine and moan about something that has nothing to do with you. Again, come call me out in person, stop hiding behind your computer.

sigh.

and this is the face of our VP finance.

don't get me wrong, it seems like you are doing a good job. but when three lines down your title is written bold and colourful, that kind of writing just looks bad on the msu.

Originally Posted by Ian Finlay

P.S. there is a meeting this sunday at 2:30pm in GH room 111. Come call me out if you would like, if not then its not worth posting on macinsiders.

I'm going to agree with the message on this part.

Alex, while you are not an MSU member, if you wish to make your lovely accusations at an SRA meeting, I believe the SRA would like to facilitate this.

@Alex, you're not an MSU member?

He graduated last year after being defeated in the election for VP Finance. I think you can probably see some bitterness, eh?

Alex, you did not lose for lack of friends.. well even still it's unrelated. I agree with Ian and I'm also tired of this stuff. Be respectful and if you actually have anything constructive to say then fine. But, so far I've been completely unimpressed.