Originally Posted by Icecream

He said a lot of people not the "entire population".

Clearly, you are showing signs of Apple worship.

Damn you for responding before me!!!

But thankyou for the support.

Originally Posted by RememberTwce

First of all, kudos on being able to define cult properly but I think you might want to look up generalize next.

Your statement: the only reason a lot of people have them is because Apple is very good with advertising and has created a cult of it.

You're clearly saying that the entire population of Mac users bought their computers solely based on advertising and uniqueness when in fact there are a multitude of reasons to buy one. If that's not generalizing then I need to brush up on my english.

I did not say the entire population, I said "alot" of people buy Apple Products based on advertising and uniqueness, and I'm sure some people buy MacBooks for a other reasons, but that is a small group from what I can tell. I have asked alot of people why they bought an iphone or a macbook instead of an android or a pc, the response is usually, "because I like it", "because it's better", "because it looks cool", and probably because it's a "safe" bet to get what everyone is getting, as the majority can't possibly be wrong, but at the end they cannot give me a solid factual reason.

Apple makes "one size fits all" sort of products, and they release yearly instead of monthly like other companies which gives people more time to notice and inquire about it when they see the same laptop/phone with a unique design and logo which invoke interest which eventually leads them to purchase the product and then it starts to snowball from there.

Originally Posted by RememberTwce

(1) I agree the same parts are more expensive in a Mac. However, the extra money is because of OSX, something which no other company sells. Whether or not you agree with this restricted availability is another issue.

(2) Any software designed for OSX should run fine and personally I have found perfect alternatives for everything I used on Windows. I don't even run Bootcamp because I have no need for Windows. Even CS:S and TF2 have Mac versions on Steam so personally I am set.

(3) The majority of Apple commercials are for iPhones and iPods but if you are foolish enough to make a purchase based on advertising alone then yes, that would be pretty stupid. However, most people I have look at a wide array of alternatives before getting or not getting a Mac.

(4) Little harsh considering the connotation that the word "cult" carries with it but okay that's your opinion (ergo, not a fact).

(1) You're right, OSX is the reason for the extra cost, not because of the OS itself but because Apple has adopted to push for EFI instead of BIOS, Apple is trying to force a new standard so they can monopolize the market, BIOS does not limit the progress of hardware or software development, so why did Apple make such a big switch from the standard? For the sake of being different?

(2) Of course specific software designed for OSX would work on OSX, the point is there aren't that many compared to PC

(3) I think I used the wrong word before, marketing is the word I'm looking for. Apple's marketing strategy is ingenius, and I'm sure people do look at alternatives, but the point is they end up picking Apple and the question is why. For example, when I was picking out a smartphone, I came down to two phones, the iphone4 and the HTC Desire, and I picked the HTC Desire BECAUSE it had identical specs, was much cheaper and the Android Sense UI made it more user friendly, the one reason that kept me looking at the iphone4 was because I knew it would not be replaced by a newer phone in a week and Apple would support the phone for a longer period of time.

(4) Cult does have a strong emotional attachment to it however it is not a matter of opinion, there is in fact an Apple "cult" just like there is a gaming "cult", the large majority of people don't use Apple products, mostly because of the cost I would presume.

Originally Posted by MacPack

actually I have found alot of people,especially those who aren't interested in computer when asked why they bought a mac don't give satisfactory answers, people that wouldn't even be reading this thread.

Ditto here, the main reasons I seem to get are
"everyone says they're better"
"My friend X has had one for n years and it hasn't broke but my friend Y, who got a dirt cheap HP, had it break within a year"
"They don't get viruses"

Originally Posted by HenryCheung

I have asked alot of people why they bought an iphone or a macbook instead of an android or a pc, the response is usually, "because I like it", "because it's better", "because it looks cool", and probably because it's a "safe" bet to get what everyone is getting, as the majority can't possibly be wrong, but at the end they cannot give me a solid factual reason.

I'm probably gonna piss a bunch of techy people off here, the iPhone is still better than any Android OS phone.

Buying a Mac isn't a "cult" anymore.

Misguided Apple hating is the new cult.

Originally Posted by Phaint

Buying a Mac isn't a "cult" anymore.

Misguided Apple hating is the new cult.

But.. but... you're gamer

But I'd have to agree with you, popular cults tend to develop an anti-cult it seems. Like the "games = violent people!!" cult, it's just human behavior, people who find the topic important usually end up leaning strongly towards one or the other side, I want to say group polarization but I'm not sure if it's appropriate here.

Originally Posted by Tailsnake

Ditto here, the main reasons I seem to get are
"everyone says they're better"
"My friend X has had one for n years and it hasn't broke but my friend Y, who got a dirt cheap HP, had it break within a year"
"They don't get viruses"



I'm probably gonna piss a bunch of techy people off here, the iPhone is still better than any Android OS phone.

With just a little common sense you will never get viruses, and OSX has viruses, there are just fewer of them since there are more Windows users and so malicious people focus on the majority to infect a greater number of people.

And Yes, you will likely piss of a bunch of techy people, from a strictly technical perspective the iPhone4 is getting it's ass handed to it, just look up some of the latest Android phones. In terms of operating system, the user interface is friendly with drag and drop and folder management. And personally it's so convenient to have a calender and notes widget one or two swipes away from the main page with weather, time, battery life and w/e else I want to put on there. Not that there's anything technically wrong with Apples software, I just don't like that they isolate themselves from the rest of the tech world.

However Apple does have excellent product support, given they only release one phone a year and they release their updates independently of carriers which is something greatly in their favor, I hope other manufacturers start following Apple in this regards or atleast work closer with carriers to make update releases more efficient.

Can people stop asking whether macs are compatible with shit? They have been using intel processors for 6 ****ing years now... it's the same shit as any PC. Restarting into windows takes like a minute max... stop acting like it's a hassel.

Also, even though macs typically contain similar stuff to PCs, they do have longer battery life and general performance when running OS X. This is because apple pretty much taylors the operating system to each new hardware configuration they offer. Windows takes the shot gun approach and tries to make something that just works for everyone... often resulting in a lot of inefficiency.

So overall, if you really couldn't care about tweaking things, just get a mac. If not, look into a pc with at least an i5 to make it somewhat future proof. Either way, it will be "engineering compatible".

Originally Posted by HenryCheung

(1) You're right, OSX is the reason for the extra cost, not because of the OS itself but because Apple has adopted to push for EFI instead of BIOS, Apple is trying to force a new standard so they can monopolize the market, BIOS does not limit the progress of hardware or software development, so why did Apple make such a big switch from the standard? For the sake of being different?

I just want to point out that efi is better than bios. Linux has been able to use it for a decade and I just set up my pc (a lenovo thinkpad) to use efi to boot win 7. With a stock, ie awful hard drive it boots in 30s as opposed to over a minute with bios. The thing is not all pc can boot with efi.

To the op, if you get a Mac, get a pro, not the regular one. I suggest you look into business grade laptops. Lenovo usually has 35% off coupons (check redflagdeals) and hp elitebooks and Dell latitudes are really well built. The best part is they don't have any lame engraving that you always see on consumer hps.

Originally Posted by HenryCheung

With just a little common sense you will never get viruses, and OSX has viruses, there are just fewer of them since there are more Windows users and so malicious people focus on the majority to infect a greater number of people.

And Yes, you will likely piss of a bunch of techy people, from a strictly technical perspective the iPhone4 is getting it's ass handed to it, just look up some of the latest Android phones. In terms of operating system, the user interface is friendly with drag and drop and folder management. And personally it's so convenient to have a calender and notes widget one or two swipes away from the main page with weather, time, battery life and w/e else I want to put on there. Not that there's anything technically wrong with Apples software, I just don't like that they isolate themselves from the rest of the tech world.

However Apple does have excellent product support, given they only release one phone a year and they release their updates independently of carriers which is something greatly in their favor, I hope other manufacturers start following Apple in this regards or atleast work closer with carriers to make update releases more efficient.

I don't know what you're using your phone for but I've never felt like my iPhone 4 should've been more powerful. Sure it isn't the absolute most powerful, not even close, but I'd really like to know what you're doing if you actually need a dual core 1GHz processor in your cell phone. As for the UI, that's just preference. iOS 4 folder management is also drag and drop, and I personally prefer the simple grid home screen layout of iOS over the widgets of Android (I also hate widgets in Vista and 7 of course lol). And, like the last guy said, OS X is "tailored" to the hardware it's put on and so is iOS - in the case of an iPhone, that generally results in a smoother feeling UI even if the hardware is slower (more efficient use of resources), and the same optimizations also increase battery life.

And yes I do own a Mac as well, but no I don't worship Apple/Jobs. Actually for the most part I hate Apple, I just love their products . I have a MacBook Pro and it's been completely fine for me in Computer Science, at least in first year. I do have it dual Booted - OS X and Linux Mint. I haven't used Windows in well over a year and I'm doing fine without it. Perhaps I'll need it next year or later, but so far I haven't. People earlier saying you need Windows for CAD, Matlab and Maple SIM might be right, I'm not really sure (well I know that you'll need Windows for the Eng. CAD software, I just don't know about the other two), but Maple does at least have an OS X version.

And like someone said earlier - if you're looking for powerful hardware, why are you buying a laptop? I think the point of a laptop is convenience and portability, which to me means thin, light, and long battery life. My 13" MacBook Pro certainly does all of that well, and it's also at the same time powerful enough. Note: powerful enough. I don't need to have 8GB of RAM and an i7 with me at all times because 95% of my laptop's time is spent with a mail client, IM client, media player and browser running, along with background apps like temp. monitors and fan controls. The most strenuous thing it ever does is run Minecraft

EDIT: And yes I would also agree that EFI > BIOS. BIOS is such an old, outdated system... BIOS + MBR just pisses me off, multibooting is so much easier with EFI/GPT

Originally Posted by Ownaginatios

Can people stop asking whether macs are compatible with shit? They have been using intel processors for 6 ****ing years now... it's the same shit as any PC. Restarting into windows takes like a minute max... stop acting like it's a hassel.

Also, even though macs typically contain similar stuff to PCs, they do have longer battery life and general performance when running OS X. This is because apple pretty much taylors the operating system to each new hardware configuration they offer. Windows takes the shot gun approach and tries to make something that just works for everyone... often resulting in a lot of inefficiency.

So overall, if you really couldn't care about tweaking things, just get a mac. If not, look into a pc with at least an i5 to make it somewhat future proof. Either way, it will be "engineering compatible".

Asking if macs have compatible issues is a valid concern, and Apple may have adopted "standard" hardware, but it's software does in fact have compatibility issues, you will have to either run XP or use a virtual drive to run certain programs, which will be a relevant issue if you're in engineering. The problems have solutions but the point is the problem should not exist anymore considering the amount of time the mac OS has had to mature.

You're right about Apple configuring each new hardware to the OS, it's called EFI and it essentially isolates Apple from the rest of the tech market since almost nothing will be compatible since the rest of the world is using BIOS which is based on firmware to allow compatibility with the OS. EFI is a perfectly valid system and has it's strengths, such as avoiding firmware problems and booting faster, but it inherently monopolizes the market eliminating any competition for replacing parts, upgrading and servicing which does not sit very well with our current market system which is suppose to be based on competition. Hopefully there will come a day when manufacturers combine BIOS and EFI to make systems as compatible and efficient as possible, instead of worry about how to get more power.

And the decision to choose a laptop with OSX should be based more on just if you like to tweak things. Because when you do need to tweak things, when something breaks or you want to upgrade, you are forced to go to Apple, this is not a coincidence, they chose the EFI system for this reason as there is currently no reason not to use a BIOS system, the only difference right now is in the way it affects the market.

Originally Posted by HenryCheung

Asking if macs have compatible issues is a valid concern, and Apple may have adopted "standard" hardware, but it's software does in fact have compatibility issues, you will have to either run XP or use a virtual drive to run certain programs, which will be a relevant issue if you're in engineering. The problems have solutions but the point is the problem should not exist anymore considering the amount of time the mac OS has had to mature.

You're right about Apple configuring each new hardware to the OS, it's called EFI and it essentially isolates Apple from the rest of the tech market since almost nothing will be compatible since the rest of the world is using BIOS which is based on firmware to allow compatibility with the OS. EFI is a perfectly valid system and has it's strengths, such as avoiding firmware problems and booting faster, but it inherently monopolizes the market eliminating any competition for replacing parts, upgrading and servicing which does not sit very well with our current market system which is suppose to be based on competition. Hopefully there will come a day when manufacturers combine BIOS and EFI to make systems as compatible and efficient as possible, instead of worry about how to get more power.

And the decision to choose a laptop with OSX should be based more on just if you like to tweak things. Because when you do need to tweak things, when something breaks or you want to upgrade, you are forced to go to Apple, this is not a coincidence, they chose the EFI system for this reason as there is currently no reason not to use a BIOS system, the only difference right now is in the way it affects the market.

What exactly are you talking about upgrading? RAM and hard drive are user-replaceable just fine, and you wouldn't be able to upgrade your CPU in almost any notebook around because they tend to be soldered in rather than clamped in a socket like in a desktop PC.

Also, you don't have to use only XP if you multiboot a Mac, Vista and 7 also work.

Originally Posted by HenryCheung

Asking if macs have compatible issues is a valid concern, and Apple may have adopted "standard" hardware, but it's software does in fact have compatibility issues, you will have to either run XP or use a virtual drive to run certain programs, which will be a relevant issue if you're in engineering. The problems have solutions but the point is the problem should not exist anymore considering the amount of time the mac OS has had to mature.

Then dual boot... no idea why people find this to be an issue. If you require windows more often, stay in windows more often or get a pc. It's the exact same issue anyone using linux experiences... assuming they can't get wine to run the program they want.

Originally Posted by Andrew A

I don't know what you're using your phone for but I've never felt like my iPhone 4 should've been more powerful. Sure it isn't the absolute most powerful, not even close, but I'd really like to know what you're doing if you actually need a dual core 1GHz processor in your cell phone. As for the UI, that's just preference. iOS 4 folder management is also drag and drop, and I personally prefer the simple grid home screen layout of iOS over the widgets of Android (I also hate widgets in Vista and 7 of course lol). And, like the last guy said, OS X is "tailored" to the hardware it's put on and so is iOS - in the case of an iPhone, that generally results in a smoother feeling UI even if the hardware is slower (more efficient use of resources), and the same optimizations also increase battery life.

EDIT: And yes I would also agree that EFI > BIOS. BIOS is such an old, outdated system... BIOS + MBR just pisses me off, multibooting is so much easier with EFI/GPT

I have an HTC Desire, almost identical specs to the iPhone4, and I just use it for notes reminding me to do stuff, calender for important dates and assignment, browsing the web (which is quite CPU relevant) and taking pictures/videos. I never said anything about needing to be more power, I just said there are phones more powerful than iPhone4 which some users do need and of course it never hurts to continually improve tech. But my main problem with Apple is more with ethics than tech.

Originally Posted by Andrew A

What exactly are you talking about upgrading? RAM and hard drive are user-replaceable just fine, and you wouldn't be able to upgrade your CPU in almost any notebook around because they tend to be soldered in rather than clamped in a socket like in a desktop PC.

Also, you don't have to use only XP if you multiboot a Mac, Vista and 7 also work.

Hmm, you're quite right about the upgrading RAM/hard-drive, must be the mac-hate in me. And yes you can dual boot from any operating system, I was just using XP as an example as it seems to be the most popular.

Oh, well yes, XP is still the most-used OS in the world but it used to be that Apple's "Bootcamp" software (which is really just a partitioning tool with a bundle of drivers for Windows) only marketed XP compatibility, so I thought maybe you were under the impression that newer Windows OS' wouldn't work. Vista and 7 drivers are around now though.

And yes, I agree with the Apple ethics argument for the most part. And you're right, improving technology is a good thing, but it seems that too many people get too caught up with it, and always think they need to own the absolute bleeding edge most powerful products around. It's just like with cameras where everyone just goes for whichever camera has the highest MP count