Originally Posted by marcie

That's what one of the news reports said... that they knew each other beforehand and met up under the pretense they'd be discussing her career options. Not really the point.

That's what I meant. It's seems a bit...stupid to go seeking career advice at a bar. Not really the most respectable way to go about it. And then to go with them to another bar?
I dunno, doesn't exactly scream intelligent to me.
Not saying she deserved what may have happened though.

EDIT: Better throw this at the start of the post: I mean no disrespect to anyone involved in this case. (See my note in the third paragraph)

There have been numerous cases of a prostitute having relations with a random stranger whom they later saw on television, or in the newspaper and identified them as an "important person." Jackpot. The prostitutes then went to the authorities claiming to have been raped, and saying the man was a "trusted friend" and so on and so forth. These issues are usually identified (and subsequently thrown out) in court.

Another scenario, student meets with a professor outside of scheduled office hours for some extra help/advice (in a strictly professional contect). 2 + 2 = 4, victim claims to have known the assailant, accuses them of getting too physical and bam, instant newspaper publicity.


Now far be it from me to claim that this is anything close to what's happened here, and I really mean no disrespect to anyone involved in this incident...I think we need to let the legal process take its course and see what the ruling is based on y'know, evidence. But the reason I bring this up is because it's a fallacy to assume that she's telling the truth...because anyone can make any allegation about anything.

If I had some extra spending money, I could make it into the newspaper by making an assault and battery claim against Bill Gates. Doesn't mean it happens...that's why the words "accused" and "allegedly" are used.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

I think we need to let the legal process take its course and see what the ruling is based on y'know, evidence. But the reason I bring this up is because it's a fallacy to assume that she's telling the truth...because anyone can make any allegation about anything.

I agree, but Serene said it best at the start.

Originally Posted by Serene

There goes their future.

I read a some comments on the linked posts. Pretty much everyone is convince they are guilty and having fun bashing them even though they are just being charged.

With pictures and personal information being release. Even if the court found them not to be guilty, people will only remember them for being charged.

Originally Posted by PHLN

With pictures and personal information being release. Even if the court found them not to be guilty, people will only remember them for being charged.

Kind of like that woman who was convicted of killing her children, only to have it turn out the forensic person was incompetant and made mistakes on several cases... people still remember her as a murderer.

Originally Posted by RyanC

People like this? You mean brown people?

Thats such a sad attempt to cause an argument.

Originally Posted by crazyfree

That's what I meant. It's seems a bit...stupid to go seeking career advice at a bar. Not really the most respectable way to go about it. And then to go with them to another bar?
I dunno, doesn't exactly scream intelligent to me.
Not saying she deserved what may have happened though.

haha ugh you're getting so close to blaming the victim. Career advice over a few drinks is extremely normal, where have you been living? And what is wrong with going to another bar? How is it stupid to go to a bar with a couple of MDs?


-a girl is dateraped
-Health Sci rep Crazy free's response? she is stupid.



i can't believe macinsiders has people like you. : ( kinda sucks for the rest of us.

Originally Posted by andrew22

haha ugh you're getting so close to blaming the victim. Career advice over a few drinks is extremely normal, where have you been living? And what is wrong with going to another bar? How is it stupid to go to a bar with a couple of MDs?

-a girl is dateraped
-Health Sci rep Crazy free's response? she is stupid.



i can't believe macinsiders has people like you. : ( kinda sucks for the rest of us.

/facepalm
I said explicitly at the end of my post that she didn't deserve what happened. Obviously it's not her fault. She didn't put drugs in her drink or rape herself, or ask these guys to (allegedly) be ****ed up enough to do this to someone.
BUT
To me, if I'm going to get career advice from two men, any respectable person meets for coffee, or something just generally more respectable than a bar. And then to go to another bar means it's no longer purely about career advice, but something more social. It's then a totally different situation, and you'd be expected to exercise all the same cautions someone going to a bar should exercise. AGAIN, since you seemed to have trouble with it the first time, I'm not saying she deserved, or should be blamed for what happened, but that doesn't make her any smarter imo.

It's like saying someone who walks down a dark alleyway is smart-no I'm not blaming them for getting mugged (the muggers are obviously the one's at fault, duh) but that doesn't make their decision any smarter.

But maybe that's just because of how I was raised. I don't trust anyone, and try not to put myself in situations that could lead to things like this. That's not to say you can ever completely avoid things like this happening. There will always be ****ed up individuals in the world, sadly, but you can try your best to avoid them.

Edit:
To add to that, why in the world would it matter if they're MD's? Does that suddenly make them better people? 0_o

As I recall from yesterday on the news they're still waiting on a toxicology report to see if the woman was indeed drugged. Personally, I'm kinda peeved that they have already been convicted in the court of public opinion before its even known if a substance was administered.

That said, if they did what they are accused of that's awful, but there is NO bullet proof way to screen people and you can't really blame the schools.

Originally Posted by crazyfree

Edit:
To add to that, why in the world would it matter if they're MD's? Does that suddenly make them better people? 0_o

It matters that they are MDs. In this society we hold doctors above every other profession, in terms of respect and prestige. Obviously if an MD volunteered to help you talk about your career goals you would be happy. Thats probably why the girl met with them in the first place, but from the sounds of it they decided to exploit the situation.

Originally Posted by crazyfree

/facepalm
I said explicitly at the end of my post that she didn't deserve what happened. Obviously it's not her fault. She didn't put drugs in her drink or rape herself, or ask these guys to (allegedly) be ****ed up enough to do this to someone.
BUT
To me, if I'm going to get career advice from two men, any respectable person meets for coffee, or something just generally more respectable than a bar. And then to go to another bar means it's no longer purely about career advice, but something more social. It's then a totally different situation, and you'd be expected to exercise all the same cautions someone going to a bar should exercise. AGAIN, since you seemed to have trouble with it the first time, I'm not saying she deserved, or should be blamed for what happened, but that doesn't make her any smarter imo.

It's like saying someone who walks down a dark alleyway is smart-no I'm not blaming them for getting mugged (the muggers are obviously the one's at fault, duh) but that doesn't make their decision any smarter.

But maybe that's just because of how I was raised. I don't trust anyone, and try not to put myself in situations that could lead to things like this. That's not to say you can ever completely avoid things like this happening. There will always be ****ed up individuals in the world, sadly, but you can try your best to avoid them.

Edit:
To add to that, why in the world would it matter if they're MD's? Does that suddenly make them better people? 0_o

Do people really need to list out the reasons why one would leave one bar to go to another?

inb4"lolareyoureallys ayingthatbarhoppingdo esnthappen"

Originally Posted by jo87

It matters that they are MDs. In this society we hold doctors above every other profession, in terms of respect and prestige. Obviously if an MD volunteered to help you talk about your career goals you would be happy. Thats probably why the girl met with them in the first place, but from the sounds of it they decided to exploit the situation.

That doesn't mean I would trust them anymore than anyone else. Since when were doctors better people? I know many more honest and trustworthy "average joes" if we're going to distinguish like this than I do doctors, who are just as susceptible to faults as anyone else. The profession is respectable-the people themselves not always. Their are some shitty ass people working in medicine, as I've experienced first hand. And at the same time their are some people that would make you cry for how good they are as human beings. But you'll find the exact same diversity in construction workers, garbage collectors and secretaries. It's silly to assume that someone is any better a person because of their occupation.

And, yes I would be happy, but I would never agree to go to a bar for any kind consultation. But again that's me. Maybe she hasn't been through what I've been through, or been taught what I've been taught, and as such I feel quite sad for her if this really did happen to her. But otherwise..its rather strange to view meeting two men at a bar for career advice as totally acceptable in the first place. That just screams "bad intentions" from the get go. Maybe it really was a case of being blinded by their occupations? I don't know.

Since people are getting off on "Why does it matter that he was a doctor? that doesn't necessarily make him a better person." I'd like to toss in my 2 cents

I don't believe the importance of him being a doctor for this story lies in the possibility of him being a better person for being a doctor, but rather it is because of the implications of him being a doctor.

Doctors are people who routinely work in isolated settings with vulnerable and trusting people. If a doctor were a rapist, obviously that would put his patients at risk. The doctor could easily violate a woman, and use her health problems as blackmail material. ex: "tell the police and I'll cut off your meds". To illustrate a point, imagine there is a possible child molester, would you be more worried if the suspect was a random homeless man, or a kindergarten teacher? Obviously you would be more concerned if the kindergarten teacher was the child molester since the kindergarten teacher routinely works with children.

Originally Posted by lawleypop

Do people really need to list out the reasons why one would leave one bar to go to another?

inb4"lolareyoureallys ayingthatbarhoppingdo esnthappen"

Other than "this place is boring, let's go elsewhere" which clearly indicates a social aspect to evening beyond the professional matter of discussion career advice:

Atmosphere? It's noisy? Service sucks? Busy?

Maybe you shouldn't have met in a bar to begin with 0_0




Look I'm not even the one who called her dumb in the first place, its was some other person in the thread. All I did was reply and explain why the situation wasn't exactly the brightest to put yourself in. Not blaming her, only explaining why the situation wasn't the brightest. Nor am I the first person to say this all looks kinda sketchy. If it's for real, I'm heartbroken she went through that, and the guys are shitty ****ing people. But I've been through shit too and while it wasn't my fault, at the end of it I could look back and realize what I did was stupid and learn from that.

Originally Posted by crazyfree

Other than "this place is boring, let's go elsewhere" which clearly indicates a social aspect to evening beyond the professional matter of discussion career advice:

Atmosphere? It's noisy? Service sucks? Busy?

Maybe you shouldn't have met in a bar to begin with 0_0

2 words: Pub Crawl

They're more popular than you'd think.

Originally Posted by crazyfree

Other than "this place is boring, let's go elsewhere" which clearly indicates a social aspect to evening beyond the professional matter of discussion career advice:

Atmosphere? It's noisy? Service sucks? Busy?

Maybe you shouldn't have met in a bar to begin with 0_0




Look I'm not even the one who called her dumb in the first place, its was some other person in the thread. All I did was reply and explain why the situation wasn't exactly the brightest to put yourself in. Not blaming her, only explaining why the situation wasn't the brightest. Nor am I the first person to say this all looks kinda sketchy. If it's for real, I'm heartbroken she went through that, and the guys are shitty ****ing people. But I've been through shit too and while it wasn't my fault, at the end of it I could look back and realize what I did was stupid and learn from that.

My beef with this sort of reasoning is the fact that people always look to the situational/environmental factors.

If these guys had the intention of raping her, they were gonna get it done. In a bar or not.

If people have pills lying around to drug someone at a bar, then THEY HAD DRUGS LYING AROUND. Premeditated.

Stop blaming the environment.

There are BAD people in the world, simple as that.

Maybe this analogy helps: "guns don't kill people, people kill people."


And I REALLY hate to break it to you, but I think EVERYONE in the world has crossover between their professional and social life. Do you go to work and ONLY talk about work things?