Originally Posted by jesus

I don't think it's fair to compare yourself to workers in other countries. If that were the case, they could claw our minimum wage to $5/hour and should be happy that they simply have a job.

For some people, for example a single mother supporting two children working full-time at a minimum wage job isn't exactly going to cut it.

My cousin, a recent law school grad, said that during the recession a lot of people are afraid to ask for more money. However, if you have the qualifications for a position and deserve it, then ask for the increase in pay and you may get it. She got hired during the recession, went "Shang Hai" during the pay negotiations ... and the employers gave her even more money than she asked for.

Should they be happy that they still have jobs? Yes, of course. But if they're losing important things such as their pensions and their job security is at risk, then I don't exactly blame the union for their actions.

Fair in some respects. But what about everyone else? Should we all start complaining and not doing our jobs because money's tight? Or should we understand that and try to deal with it? What I see is the need to balance between the necessary wages and necessary service provided.

Let me put it in another way: is this strike helping a select group or everyone, on the whole(I think the movie "A Beautiful Mind" touches on this)? The answer to this question, the way I see it:
- if no strike: some kind of wages, pretty secure job at university, workplace safety, university works as normal

- if strike: higher wages(how much?), more secure job(maybe),workplace safety, university looses money, students loose time and money

so which strikes(lol) a better balance overall? I don't know, but from where I stand, I see a select group whose actions may affect my life negatively for their own gain
Not happy...

Originally Posted by adrian

Fair in some respects. But what about everyone else? Should we all start complaining and not doing our jobs because money's tight? Or should we understand that and try to deal with it? What I see is the need to balance between the necessary wages and necessary service provided.

Let me put it in another way: is this strike helping a select group or everyone, on the whole(I think the movie "A Beautiful Mind" touches on this)? The answer to this question, the way I see it:
- if no strike: some kind of wages, pretty secure job at university, workplace safety, university works as normal

- if strike: higher wages(how much?), more secure job(maybe),workplace safety, university looses money, students loose time and money

so which strikes a better balance overall? I don't know, but from where I stand, I see a select group whose actions may affect my life negatively for their own gain
Not happy...

I think with respect to collective bargaining, job security/wages, instead of asking "why do they deserve it?" instead we should be asking "why don't I get that as well?".

edit: callen mentioned in another thread, a major issue for these workers is the two-tiered pension program. In many cases, people are more concerned about their pensions than their hourly wage.

TBH, I'm not exactly sure how McMaster's financial situation is at the moment. Although stock investments and business investments have decreased at U of T, there have been increases in revenue which offset this decline in investments: increased research funding, increased tuition & increased enrollement, etc. I'm curious to see the numbers at McMaster specifically. U of T tried to use the economy to justify their lay-offs; however, economically they were getting more profit.

But with this strike, our classes won't be cancelled. We'll be inconvenienced, yes, but that's a part of life.

Originally Posted by jesus

I think with respect to collective bargaining, job security/wages, instead of asking "why do they deserve it?" instead we should be asking "why don't I get that as well?".

edit: callen mentioned in another thread, a major issue for these workers is the two-tiered pension program. In many cases, people are more concerned about their pensions than their hourly wage.

TBH, I'm not exactly sure how McMaster's financial situation is at the moment. Although stock investments and business investments have decreased at U of T, there have been increases in revenue which offset this decline in investments: increased research funding, increased tuition & increased enrollement, etc. I'm curious to see the numbers at McMaster specifically. U of T tried to use the economy to justify their lay-offs; however, economically they were getting more profit.

But with this strike, our classes won't be cancelled. We'll be inconvenienced, yes, but that's a part of life.

They get inconvenienced - they strike
We get inconvenienced - part of life
hmmm

WHY DONT WE GET THE SAME>?????:drinking05 :
You said to do it, you did!!!

Our inconvenience = having to wait longer to get marks processed, less support staff, but classes are still going on.

Their "inconvenience" (I wouldn't exactly call it that) - losing out on their pension, possibly losing their job-security.

Sure, you can complain, but I'd hope that if people are reasonable so they'd see a difference between the two.

WHY DONT WE GET THE SAME>?????

I meant with respect to decent wages/pension and job security, but if you want to take my statement that way, go ahead : )

Originally Posted by jesus

TBH, I'm not exactly sure how McMaster's financial situation is at the moment.

They ran out of the money set aside for building the new engineering building in front of ITB. I think that says something about it...haha.

Originally Posted by jesus

Our inconvenience = having to wait longer to get marks processed, less support staff, but classes are still going on.

Their "inconvenience" (I wouldn't exactly call it that) - losing out on their pension, possibly losing their job-security.

Sure, you can complain, but I'd hope that if people are reasonable that they'd see a difference between the two.


I meant with respect to decent wages/pension and job security, but if you want to take my statement that way, go ahead : )

I know, just yankin your chain to see how far it would go. You're right, they deserve to have the same as they've had so far. I just hope this doesn't happen:(illustrative example)
- student signs up for $7000 tuition
- student doesnt pay by Sept. 1
- student (tries to)drop some courses so they can pay
- student can't do JACK because administrative staff is sitting at home/on street worried about pensions
- student now stressed about money and courses
- university now stressed about getting money
- service charges applied to student
- now student really cant pay
- student fails
etc...

Originally Posted by adrian

They get inconvenienced - they strike
We get inconvenienced - part of life
hmmm

It's all about balance of power:

- If students are inconvenienced, they'll leave Mac, and more students will come.

- If workers are inconvenienced, they abuse the power of their influence to bend things into their favour.

That's what strikes are all about. Fair? Probably not, but they do have more on the line. This is potentially the last 20, 30 years of their life being affected here, what with retirement money and all that jazz.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

They ran out of the money set aside for building the new engineering building in front of ITB. I think that says something about it...haha.

lol srsly? That sucks major donkey
I hope our tuitions are gonna be enough...we should pay more maybe

McMaster is short at a minimum $30-40 Million Dollars from next year operating budget(according to an informal chat with a MSU BOD member). That is why they are having trouble getting that bus stop built, that is why the Wentworth house locational construction of the liberal arts building hasn't gone through even though it has been in the mixer for years, they can't do anything about SOLAR, they had to let go around 100-200 sessionals...things are sort of not so good right now I assume. Plus Peter George is gone, as much as we baulked at his salary he was the reason Mac Drew donations. Without him we are currently in a different and worse of situation!

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

McMaster is short at a minimum $30-40 Million Dollars from next year operating budget(according to an informal chat with a MSU BOD member). That is why they are having trouble getting that bus stop built, that is why the Wentworth house locational construction of the liberal arts building hasn't gone through even though it has been in the mixer for years, they can't do anything about SOLAR, they had to let go around 100-200 sessionals...things are sort of not so good right now I assume. Plus Peter George is gone, as much as we baulked at his salary he was the reason Mac Drew donations. Without him we are currently in a different and worse of situation!

WHY IS IT I HEAR OF THIS RIGHT AFTER I DID MY ONLINE BANK PAYMENT???? WHYYYY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
EDIT: if I knew this in april, would've looked for a more SECURE university, where I'm served for the money I pay them, not the other way around. Don't flame on me, I love McMaster, just not happy at this news

Originally Posted by adrian

I know, just yankin your chain to see how far it would go. You're right, they deserve to have the same as they've had so far. I just hope this doesn't happen:(illustrative example)
- student signs up for $7000 tuition
- student doesnt pay by Sept. 1
- student (tries to)drop some courses so they can pay
- student can't do JACK because administrative staff is sitting at home/on street worried about pensions
- student now stressed about money and courses
- university now stressed about getting money
- service charges applied to student
- now student really cant pay
- student fails
etc...

I'm pretty sure in a dire situation like this, you can get your professor (for the class they have to drop) to sign a note that you stopped attending classes on whatever date (they may have to do a 'follow up signature' to make sure you actually stop attending) and it can hold a lot of leverage.

Infact, I got a professor to lie for me once, saying I dropped a course 3 weeks before I actually did, because it was past the drop and add deadline. (I had financial issues...ironically)

Originally Posted by adrian

I know, just yankin your chain to see how far it would go. You're right, they deserve to have the same as they've had so far. I just hope this doesn't happen:(illustrative example)
- student signs up for $7000 tuition
- student doesnt pay by Sept. 1
- student (tries to)drop some courses so they can pay
- student can't do JACK because administrative staff is sitting at home/on street worried about pensions
- student now stressed about money and courses
- university now stressed about getting money
- service charges applied to student
- now student really cant pay
- student fails
etc...

Yeah, that would be too bad. Thankfully the registrar sent out some notification in advance. I think I read earlier that there may be some administrative staff, but just with reduced hours.

Anyways, I'm hoping for the best scenario for both sides. A fair agreement so that this issue can be resolved quickly.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

I'm pretty sure in a dire situation like this, you can get your professor (for the class they have to drop) to sign a note that you stopped attending classes on whatever date (they may have to do a 'follow up signature' to make sure you actually stop attending) and it can hold a lot of leverage.

Infact, I got a professor to lie for me once, saying I dropped a course 3 weeks before I actually did, because it was past the drop and add deadline. (I had financial issues...ironically)

good idea, I'll keep it in mind, thanks

Originally Posted by jesus

Yeah, that would be too bad. Thankfully the registrar sent out some notification in advance. I think I read earlier that there may be some administrative staff, but just with reduced hours.

Anyways, I'm hoping for the best scenario for both sides. A fair agreement so that this issue can be resolved quickly.

indeed
Also fair warning does not solve financial issues sometimes

Originally Posted by adrian

WHY IS IT I HEAR OF THIS RIGHT AFTER I DID MY ONLINE BANK PAYMENT???? WHYYYY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
EDIT: if I knew this in april, would've looked for a more SECURE university, where I'm served for the money I pay them, not the other way around. Don't flame on me, I love McMaster, just not happy at this news

Well I dunno, I'm just speculating but its the same in alot of Universities. Even the juggernaut Uoft had issues, but apparently they somehow ended up with a profit/positive balance for this fiscal year(don't have the article with me right now)

Its got alot to do with the financial crisis. But even with a financial crisis it depends on how you use your money and for what kinds of projects in other words what your priorities are! I don't know the exact details of how exactly Mac Admin have been spending money over the last year or so. Though I heard about random spending like a new burlington campus in such financial scenarios where the home front needs help(though a BOD source told me that was Donation funded, but still!) we don't really know the details since the admin probably prefers it that way!

But it does tie in with the current labour negotiations. If the admin doesn't have alot of money floating around it has a harder time conceding to the demands of Unions. Which means a higher risk for strikes :S Apparently...