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Quick Rant

 
Old 09-17-2013 at 08:16 PM   #1
HerHighness
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Quick Rant
I would like to express a frustration of mine - The Student Store.

First of all it seems like McMaster doesn't realize the amount of students that need to purchase textbooks based on the way the bookstore runs. The fact that there were 30 minute lines and even longer for the entire first week of classes after orientation week is outrageous. Especially since the first week there are so many things to do and things to remember and things to figure out that waiting in these lines for required course material is too time consuming.

Second, the service at the store is well, non existent really. While there are staff members behind counters that could offer assistance, the lines to get to these staff members are usually 10 people long. The shelf organization is okay but sometimes certain courses are not under their appropriate section but at the end of aisles and therefore difficult to locate. With no staff, one has to wait 15 minutes before getting to the front of the line to inquire about the location of a textbook.

Third, I would like to mention the amount of out of stock materials. I must underline that these are required course materials. Required by the school and yet not supplied by the bookstore. The people in charge of inventory surely have a list of how many students are enrolled and thus how much material is needed.
I went in with four items to purchase. 1) a chemistry access code 2) a chemistry lab notebook 3) a psych handbook 4) a math course pack
I left with the access code and ordered the course pack. The store was out of stock of the psych materials as well as the chemistry notebook. When I told them I had a lab soon and a notebook was required they just shrugged their shoulders. Thankfully, the gentleman I bought my used textbooks from included his notebook so I would be able to go to my lab with the required materials. How can the store simply not have materials that could prevent students from being able to participate in labs if they lacked them?

Finally, when I went to pick up my ordered item from the bookstore I met this very nice first year gentleman in engineering who told me about some sort of physics lab book he needed for his lab tomorrow and apparently had been in multiple times and they hadn't had it stocked. And this is my anecdotal evidence that it happens to many people and so many students are stressed about lack of required materials.

First year students especially, go through so much stress already with the adjustment that worrying about whether or not their materials will be stocked or having to wait in line for 30 minutes at a time is unnecessary and must change.

End Rant.

Thank-you for reading.

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Old 09-17-2013 at 08:32 PM   #2
Commie42
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Welcome to Mac. It totally sucks, but dealing with The Campus Store (formerly named "Titles") is a pain in the *** sometimes.

What can I recommend? Starting this year, I have done my best to boycott Titles (#OccupyTitles). I either buy my textbooks used (don't always listen to the profs when they say the newer version is required, definitely look into the difference between the versions first), don't buy a textbook at all (you'd be surprised that some courses you are completely fine with just using the free resources that the instructors provide you), or if you really have to, often you can buy eBooks with online content directly from the publisher which are sometimes cheeper. Lastly, there is always the alternative of renting textbooks online (many come with online content from what I've heard). Websites like CourseSmart offer "6 textbooks for $200" deals, which could save you a lot!

It's unfortunate that buying course materials can be so expensive and yet still so inconvenient. Either you learn to deal with it, or you find an alternative to The Campus Store. If you really feel it is necessary, you can always send a complaint to the management of The Campus Store directly, but based on experience, I have found that they get very defensive and try to justify all the inconveniences such as long lines, out-of-stock items, and poor customer service.

Other than this problem, I hope you are enjoying your first year at Mac so far!

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Old 09-17-2013 at 08:40 PM   #3
Strategy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerHighness View Post
Third, I would like to mention the amount of out of stock materials. I must underline that these are required course materials. Required by the school and yet not supplied by the bookstore. The people in charge of inventory surely have a list of how many students are enrolled and thus how much material is needed.
This bothers me the most. You're right, they do have a list of how many people are enrolled in a class, yet they do nothing about it. In my personality class last year, they were short of about 100 textbooks (which are required). That's a big portion of the class.. I had to wait until the third week of school to get the book. Luckily, I just used my friends in the meantime, but still..
Old 09-17-2013 at 08:51 PM   #4
Leeoku
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Courseware fine. But materials such as lab notebooks or w/e should be no excuse....

One thing you could try to explore is buy the textbook (if not courseware) online or from previous years
Old 09-17-2013 at 10:16 PM   #5
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I understand your frustration but you have to realize that the store is also limited in its capacity as book supplier. First of all they do have the number of people enrolled, but that number shifts so much in the first month of school as people add and drop courses. You know how congested SOLAR gets with people, shifting, changing selecting classes. You have to allow for time for that information to be gathered and records to be altered at the Bookstore.

The other thing is that book store doesn't print textbooks they are also waiting on a supplier who has millions of schools to supply to during September. They are so many people involved in the process, sometimes profs also stall finalizing the textbook list and that lengthens the process between the book being purchased, the supplier meeting the quota requested and the delivering them. It its not like the profs give textbook lists in June and the Campus store just sits on the information until the Rush period.

I agree about the lineups, and I am sure Campus store management also realizes the frustration students have.

They work hard and they try to be as efficient as they can possibly be.

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Old 09-17-2013 at 10:52 PM   #6
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Step 1: Join MSU / titles management
Step 2: Get elected
Step 3: Make a difference

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Old 09-18-2013 at 01:00 AM   #7
Kudos
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Why exactly did they eliminate the Tank? I feel like that worked a lot better than that stupid line outside CNH.

I waited in that line for a half hour or so only to learn that the only thing I needed, a courseware, had been misplaced. 30+ copies, misplaced. Now, I work in retail, and I get it. But when I can't find a product for a customer, I figure out a way to fix the situation. The people at Titles or whatever it's called these days wouldn't/couldn't take my name, or hold a copy when it was found, or let me bypass that hideous line the next time in any way. I was pretty annoyed.
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Old 09-18-2013 at 07:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudos View Post
Why exactly did they eliminate the Tank? I feel like that worked a lot better than that stupid line outside CNH.

I waited in that line for a half hour or so ...
I tried their "Click and collect" service. Order on-line and pay with plastic. Go and pick up a bag with all your stuff in it a few days later. No line-up. No waiting. Recommended!

The other correspondents are right about the problems of matching enrolment numbers with copies to order. The class sizes are never firm early, and they cannot count on everybody buying the book from the store. So, the number to be ordered has to be a guess. If they order too many, sure, they can return the books for a refund, but they get stuck with the cost of shipping both ways. That must cut into profits!

As for specialized notebooks for lab courses, maybe the profs have to get realistic in their requirements, and match their desires with what is actually available? For example, what's wrong with plain printer paper? But, if there is a legitimate demand for a specific design of notebook, there's really little excuse for not having enough copies in stock to match the total number of seats at the lab benches.

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Old 09-18-2013 at 07:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudos View Post
Why exactly did they eliminate the Tank? I feel like that worked a lot better than that stupid line outside CNH.
It was apparently for storage reasons. Supposed to make things easier for them.
Old 09-18-2013 at 09:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldviking View Post
As for specialized notebooks for lab courses, maybe the profs have to get realistic in their requirements, and match their desires with what is actually available? For example, what's wrong with plain printer paper? But, if there is a legitimate demand for a specific design of notebook, there's really little excuse for not having enough copies in stock to match the total number of seats at the lab benches.
That's not possible for things like chemistry labs. Those notebooks have carbon paper so that your TA gets a copy and you get a copy. Everything has to be written by hand during labs and handed in at the end, so there's no way to type it up or make an extra copy for your TA, either. Almost all first year lab courses have some kind of specific reason for why they use special notebooks instead of regular paper.
Old 09-18-2013 at 10:01 AM   #11
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You don't even have to buy the Physics lab notebook from Titles. If I recall correctly, the lab coordinator, Alex, sells them as well for a lower price than you'd get in Titles. They're the same one, too. $15 vs $8
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Old 09-18-2013 at 01:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudos View Post
Why exactly did they eliminate the Tank? I feel like that worked a lot better than that stupid line outside CNH.

Apparently the Tank was a warehouse that they RENTED, and they did it to reduce costs or something.
Old 09-18-2013 at 02:00 PM   #13
oldviking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ooburii View Post
That's not possible for things like chemistry labs. Those notebooks have carbon paper so that your TA gets a copy and you get a copy. Everything has to be written by hand during labs and handed in at the end, so there's no way to type it up or make an extra copy for your TA, either. Almost all first year lab courses have some kind of specific reason for why they use special notebooks instead of regular paper.
I assume it's really NCR paper, not old-fashioned carbon paper, like in the dark ages.

It sounds as if they are starting from a presumption that everyone will tamper with their results if such measures were not taken. A disturbing thought, from an ethical viewpoint!

Still, why cannot the entire Science faculty get together, and agree on a single common standard of notebook that everyone will use? And that the Bookstore would be able to keep in stock?

-- not a Science student!
Old 09-18-2013 at 02:19 PM   #14
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normally I go into the Tank (now gone) and if a textbook is required and the price reasonable Ill buy it there. This year everything will be pirated. I havnt taken one step into titles this year and don't plan to.

This is just another example of McMaster's total incompetency along with virtually everything technical
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Old 09-18-2013 at 02:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldviking View Post
I assume it's really NCR paper, not old-fashioned carbon paper, like in the dark ages.

It sounds as if they are starting from a presumption that everyone will tamper with their results if such measures were not taken. A disturbing thought, from an ethical viewpoint!

Still, why cannot the entire Science faculty get together, and agree on a single common standard of notebook that everyone will use? And that the Bookstore would be able to keep in stock?

-- not a Science student!
You're correct, it's not real carbon paper, it's called "carbonless copy paper" or something.

No, they aren't starting with the presumption that people will tamper with results. You're assuming that that's the reason for the carbon(less) copies, when really that is only secondary. You can still quite easily tamper with your results with this type of paper if so inclined. This way though, you can hand in the lab at the end of the session instead of having to do a formal report and hand it in later. For the one formal report, they still have you hand in the copy but it's just to see your original data. This way the student ALSO keeps a copy, which is more for their own benefit than that of the prof or TA. I also found that this type of paper helped me get used to the concept of "everything going in a lab book is permanent" since you can't erase things.

So yeah, I think the chemistry notebooks are the only ones where there's a good reason to have that specific one. The physics and bio ones are really just paper anyways, although you could argue that there's the added benefit of graph paper in one of them (can't remember which).

They've never run out of lab notebooks before though that I can recall - I wonder why they did this year.
Worst case scenario, borrow a few sheets of paper from the lab notebook of a friend and just staple them together so that they line up properly with their copy.



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