03-30-2010 at 10:09 PM
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#211
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I am Prince Vegeta.
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[email protected] human right. I love make belief.
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Mathematically it makes about as much sense as (pineapple)$$*cucumbe r*.
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03-30-2010 at 10:13 PM
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#212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huzaifa47
You can call it fluff or whatever you want but atleast I'm not arguing based on my biased & close minded opinions and nothing else.
#1 They quite simply do not have space for that on campus.
#2 The prayer space was booked for the exact same timespot for the entire year in August.
#3 Booking off one gym ONCE a week for 2 hours what is supposed to be a intrinsic human right(The Right to perform one's religious obligations) still leaves 6 other courts off the top of my head that are still available for the kid who wants to play basketball. Similarly the kid can probably do without playing Basketball from 12-2 on a Friday morning, he can come back anytime in the week.
#4 Yes they can go to Uoft but the University needs those International kids to keep up with the competition and to secure the government funding.
We can continue this if you want but with each passing post you are showing how illogical your stance is
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Just come off your high horse already, stop pretending you are educated. The kind of self-rightous attitude you express is disgusting. If you want a prayer space go talk to Peter and tell him. Students shouldn't lose on gym time because of other events they can't take part in. You cant infringe on someone elses right in order to get things your way. Thats exactly the kind of message you are trying to send and for someone on the SRA, you need to represent all students. Go lobby for a prayer room Make yourself useful.
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03-30-2010 at 10:19 PM
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#213
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MSU VP Education 2012-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawleypop
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Well If you want I can quote for you a series of rulings by the human rights commissions & arbitrators in Canada & USA but with you I'm never sure if you are serious or not! ( Random eg)
Maybe "intrinsic" wasn't the most accurate word but it is something that falls under human rights at some level.
@Jo *facepalm*
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Huzaifa Saeed
BA Hon, Political Science & Sociology, Class of 2013
MSU Vice President Education '12/13
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03-30-2010 at 10:22 PM
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#214
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I am Prince Vegeta.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huzaifa47
Well If you want I can quote for you a series of rulings by the human rights commissions & arbitrators in Canada & USA but with you I'm never sure if you are serious or trollin! ( Random eg)
Maybe "intrinsic" wasn't the most accurate word but it is something that falls under human rights at some level.
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I know it's a human right, I was loling at the fact that it's "intrinsic." That somehow people are ENTITLED to it.
Don't worry, I can barely tell when I'm serious or trolling either. ._.
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Mathematically it makes about as much sense as (pineapple)$$*cucumbe r*.
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03-30-2010
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healthsci1
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This message has been removed by a moderator. .
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03-30-2010 at 10:24 PM
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#215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jo87
Just come off your high horse already, stop pretending you are educated. The kind of self-rightous attitude you express is disgusting. If you want a prayer space go talk to Peter and tell him. Students shouldn't lose on gym time because of other events they can't take part in. You cant infringe on someone elses right in order to get things your way. Thats exactly the kind of message you are trying to send and for someone on the SRA, you need to represent all students. Go lobby for a prayer room Make yourself useful.
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I'm not quite sure that freedom to play sports is a right. Perhaps a privalege that you deserve but... Freedom to practice religion on the other hand is a right.
Aren't you being self-righteous by calling mr. saeed self-reighteous? And maybe I'm self righteous for asking if you are self righteous... we should all have a big self righteousness party ^_^
Also booking a room isn't infringing on anyone's rights. Also since when did every event have to be relevent to everyone to be acceptable?
Can't it just come down to the ath-rec centre not honouring its booking agreements? It doesn't matter what is going on in the gym.
huzaifa47
says thanks to Theophilus for this post.
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03-30-2010 at 10:29 PM
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#216
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MSU VP Finance 2012-2013
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There's also the fact that several student groups ARE lobbying for a prayer space, and aren't getting it. Using the Athrec center is sort of a temporary patch for the university so we don't have students leaving for UoT. Mac should make a separate prayer space (problem solved) but that isn't happening any time soon.
huzaifa47
says thanks to Jeff W for this post.
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03-30-2010 at 10:34 PM
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#217
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MSU VP Education 2012-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophilus
I'm not quite sure that freedom to play sports is a right. Perhaps a privalege that you deserve but... Freedom to practice religion on the other hand is a right.
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Right on, though the is sports>religious practice isn't even the point.
The point is that the space is only required only once a week every Friday for 2-2.5 hours around mid-day; even if people playing basketball are disturbed they can relocate to the 7-8 other courts we have on campus or come back in the 12 other hours the gym is open that day!
And yeah there is absolutely no prayer space; both the MSU & Student Affairs Committee for building inclusive communities has been looking at it but the only way they can have prayer space is if the proposed building of the Liberal Arts Building goes through(Either at the Wentworth house location or T29/30)
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Huzaifa Saeed
BA Hon, Political Science & Sociology, Class of 2013
MSU Vice President Education '12/13
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03-30-2010 at 10:48 PM
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#218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff W
There's also the fact that several student groups ARE lobbying for a prayer space, and aren't getting it. Using the Athrec center is sort of a temporary patch for the university so we don't have students leaving for UoT. Mac should make a separate prayer space (problem solved) but that isn't happening any time soon.
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Once in a while I would like to walk into a library and have a nice work space, but Im not getting it. Usually it smells, people are loud, its dirty and I can't write my essay because I don't have a place to plug in my computer. So instead of working on homework after I have an hour class, I have to go back home, which takes another hour. The thing with public institutions is that we all have to make sacrafices.
Until McMaster comes up with a prayer room, we just have to make the best out of what we have. There's a prayer space at the hospital, Im sure some students can use that.No need to blame Athletics for booking during prayer time.
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03-30-2010 at 10:49 PM
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#219
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MacInsiders Staff
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Hey everyone,
Please keep your conversations respectful and refer to the Macinsiders Code of Conduct.
Here's how I see the gym situation. It's an open space that we all have an investment in. Anyone can book it for whatever they want it for. I want to hold a cute puppy parade in the gym so I'm going to. Even if someone thinks it's a stupid thing to do and the gym would be better used for a sporting event, I've booked the gym in a fair process. So, what's wrong with the situation? We're all paying to have the facility there, right? Now switch the cute puppy parade with religion.. or a chili cook-off? om nom nom
You may not like their choice of event being held but you should appreciate them having the choice at all.
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03-30-2010 at 10:52 PM
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#220
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There's a chili cook-off!? Oh... my... god... I know you were just making a point... but can we make that happen?
I suppose it all depends on the Athletic Center's actual booking policy. They may well state that non-athletic McMaster organizations can book space, but warn that it may be bumped if Athletics needs it. I don't know though, just hypothesizing here.
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03-30-2010 at 10:52 PM
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#221
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MSU VP Education 2012-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jo87
Until McMaster comes up with a prayer room, we just have to make the best out of what we have. There's a prayer space at the hospital, Im sure some students can use that.No need to blame Athletics for booking during prayer time.
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Well Jo I'm not sure if I should even bother continuing this debate since you seem to be unaware of the basic facts. Muslim students are happy enough praying their regular daily 5 time prayers at home or at the MSA office in wentworth house.
However the Friday prayer is a special one where they have to pray in congregation with everyone in one single room together at the same time. Hence the numbers reach from 200-400 people; the gym unfortunately is the only space that can hold such numbers. Hope that clears some confusion up.
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Huzaifa Saeed
BA Hon, Political Science & Sociology, Class of 2013
MSU Vice President Education '12/13
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03-30-2010 at 11:43 PM
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#222
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Hey so I don't know about you guys but if a recognized club at McMaster went through the proper process, of booking a room in the gym, and their event was canceled without an alternative venue being provided to suit the needs of the club I think we can all agree that is not right.
Although this is a religion on campus thread, I think we should really try to first of all to look at it in a different matter. This is a club that went through the proper channels to book their room, and had that room taken away from them and were not given a proper alternative. Regardless of how you feel about the club we should all here be able to agree that this course of action is not acceptable.
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03-30-2010 at 11:49 PM
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#223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD-L
Hey so I don't know about you guys but if a recognized club at McMaster went through the proper process, of booking a room in the gym, and their event was canceled without an alternative venue being provided to suit the needs of the club I think we can all agree that is not right.
Although this is a religion on campus thread, I think we should really try to first of all to look at it in a different matter. This is a club that went through the proper channels to book their room, and had that room taken away from them and were not given a proper alternative. Regardless of how you feel about the club we should all here be able to agree that this course of action is not acceptable.
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As I mentioned above, my only argument against this point is there may be some caveat to the room booking rules regarding primary purpose of specific facilities. I had a tough time finding the room booking policy (I found a McMaster website which linked to a PDF file, but the link was broken), but I'm thinking that may be the reason.
Otherwise, I agree completely.
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03-31-2010 at 08:20 AM
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#224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jo87
Once in a while I would like to walk into a library and have a nice work space, but Im not getting it. Usually it smells, people are loud, its dirty and I can't write my essay because I don't have a place to plug in my computer. So instead of working on homework after I have an hour class, I have to go back home, which takes another hour. The thing with public institutions is that we all have to make sacrafices.
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While I sympathize with you, this is a sacrifice everyone makes...including those who need a prayer room. Two wrongs don't make a right...
Quote:
Until McMaster comes up with a prayer room, we just have to make the best out of what we have.
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Isn't that what they're doing? A gym is far from ideal, and until they have a specific prayer room they're using it because they can.
Ultimately, all I'm detecting here is that the booking of the gym impacts you negatively since a) you could potentially use the gym during that time, and b) you don't care about the event being booked. So for that reason, (according to your posts) it's wrong to complain when it goes sour.
But I think MD-L stated it quite eloquently (thanks for that).
Last edited by Mowicz : 03-31-2010 at 08:22 AM.
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