Originally Posted by Eternal Fire

yes I've been having this problem too. Thank you so much for the solution, i never knew you could do that.

No problem! I didn't know about it until someone mentioned it a few months ago. It annoyed the crap out of me too, having to wait to see all updates to the latest MacInsiders arguments.

Originally Posted by Icecream

It is not. How hard is it to show a live video of his corpse before dumping it into the sea?

You missed the point entirely. It may not be "hard" at all - that doesn't mean it won't be costly. I've given reasons for why the Americans may think it could be costly, while you haven't quite responded in kind.

You speak of denial ? Yes I deny because I want proof. I don't believe a government which lied for so much and for so long. Believing happens where there is no proof.

That's good for you and your own convictions. It doesn't make your argument any more valid.

Originally Posted by Mahratta

You missed the point entirely. It may not be "hard" at all - that doesn't mean it won't be costly. I've given reasons for why the Americans may think it could be costly, while you haven't quite responded in kind.

That's good for you and your own convictions. It doesn't make your argument any more valid.

No you did not provide information on why it would be costly.

I am not even making an argument or trying to.. Lol.

I don't believe what the Govt says. They have to show the proof since they are making the statement.

On the note of Obama, conspiracy theories, etc., I hope you've all seen this!



I love Obama.

I noticed that you tried to post it using the [yt] tag. You're supposed to delete the former part of the URL and keep only "v=..."

Originally Posted by justinsftw

I noticed that you tried to post it using the [yt] tag. You're supposed to delete the former part of the URL and keep only "v=..."

Thanks! I do that every time, and never remember how to fix it!

Originally Posted by alh24

No problem! I didn't know about it until someone mentioned it a few months ago. It annoyed the crap out of me too, having to wait to see all updates to the latest MacInsiders arguments.

this problem usually happens when a thread gets more then 100+

Originally Posted by alh24

...

I love Obama.

Well why don't you marry him then.

nice vid. rip donald trump.

It's not that difficult to read a newspaper. It's not that difficult to fact check before you spew bs all over the place and make ridiculous assumptions.

"They could have kept the body for a few days and showed it to the public, just like they did with Che Guevara or Taliban Commanders.Then, some people will say :"Oh they couldn't have kept the body or USA's population might be in danger" Well, that's not true because Al Qaeda couldn't do much anyway from 2010-2011."

"Being a muslim myself, I agree with the fact that no one is buried in water, even if its osama"

Well, a quick search on Wikipedia tells me otherwise (the media and the White House noted the exact same thing, but out of how easy it is to search Wiki I’ll quote from there)

“If the death occurs at sea, and there is a fear of the decay of the body, the prayers should be recited, and the body lowered into the sea in a vessel of clay, or with weights tied to its feet.

Additionally, if there is a concern about the exhumation and defiling of the body by an enemy, then it should be lowered into the sea in the same fashion. In either situation, it should not be lowered to a point where it will be consumed immediately”

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_funeral)

Also, as stated by Obama/the media A MILLION times, no country would have taken him. Where did you want them to bury him, in America?

"and the fact that they held it 1am (local time) -- i find that sketchy."

Uhh... the U.S army kills the #1 most wanted man, and you want them to wait until daylight to dump his body? Not to mention, burial is supposed to happen within 24 hours.

They can keep the body in a freezer. It's really easy. Or they could just put it in a coffin. Notice the word "believe". That's what people do when there is no physical proof.

They matched his DNA. They used biometrics to confirm it was Osama. They took photographs, and apparently there IS a video. I think they were trying not to upset Al Qaeda as much as possible, by trying to give him as close to a Muslim burial as possible, which as mentioned above ^ has to happen within 24 hours. You have no physical proof, not the government.

"The US govt say that they might not release the photos because they are too gruesome...CNN and other news channels always show gruesome pictures."

Wow, you’re the modern day Sherlock Holmes! If you don’t remember, the U.S. hasn’t released the additional photos from (Abu Grahib or the other incident, I forget) out of fears that it will result in a back lash from Al Qaeda (which it has before). I’m going to trust the professionals here, and if they aren’t going to release photos for the safety of their troops because there is a reasonable chance that something might happen, I’m not going to take that and jump to the conclusion that there’s a conspiracy at hand. Although, they said they will release photos.

“Bin Laden's not stupid, why on earth would he hide in a high-security compound in the Pakistani capital especially since he's been so good at hiding for the past 10 years or so?”

Bin Laden’s not stupid? Ok… Anyways, well since he’s been there for 4-6 years or so, I’m guessing it’s worked out quite well for him. The U.S. only found him because they followed a courier for the past several years. Also, maybe the Pakistan government knew where he was? Maybe being in the centre of the city/army base was less likely? Why he was there doesn’t change the fact that he was found and killed, so I don’t know why you’re mentioning it.

"Also, Obama in his speech said that his aim was to try and capture him not kill him and now somehow "justice" has been "served"? What happened to having a fair trial and all that BS that the US preaches for, like the case with Saddam Hussein for example"

Saddam Hussein was humiliated in front of hundreds, and even later posted on the internet. Osama’s sister in law was quoted saying that he never wanted to go down like Hussein, and the White House suggests (as the sister in law says Osama would do) that Osama would/did do everything to make sure he died before he was taken away. In Obama’s first speech, he said he died in firefight, while they now say he was unarmed, they do say that he resisted.

" "yayyy bin laden is deadd". its actually disgusting to see it. theyve dehumanized the word death in the past 24 hours to the point where people were actually saying they werent going to go to work or school cause they want to celebrate. its actually pretty pathetic"

Yes. These people acting out on their immediate emotions about a man that was responsible for the deaths of thousands of people over the past 40 years –some of which lost friends and family members- are pathetic. Don’t act like you’re so much holier than them because you feel like it’s disgusting to celebrate a death, it’s not the best, most attractive thing to do, and some might find it inhumane, but really? You’re sympathizing for Osama Bin Laden? Give me a break.

"you'd be naive to even think that his death means a better world now as well"

No one said that. After 10 years of looking for the mastermind behind several deadly bombings on innocent civilians, I think it’s understandable that some people might be slightly happy or relieved that he’s finally been served (somewhat) justice. No one’s saying they’re safe or that war in the ME is ending.

"Obama is using Bin Laden's death to gain his poll boost, especially because corporations and criminal politicians are scared of Ron Paul's rising popularity."

Ron Paul? He’s the least favourable “nominee” in all of the U.S. Sarah Palin and Donald Trump are more popular.

"I think Osama bin Laden was killed a long time ago, Obama is using his death for many reasons like boost of votes for 2012 presidency, possible hastening of US troops withdrawal and other reasons."

But then he’s still dead. What’s your point? There could still be pictures then, and it would still have been "Obama" that killed him. His numbers have been down for over a year, and the election isn’t for another year and a half, when exactly would the “appropriate” time be? You’re just making shit up.

"Ron Paul is a medical doctor, how can he be an idiot ?"

George Bush went to Harvard, how could he be an idiot?!

"He actually believes in talking, which is what civilized people do."

He "believes" in talking? What?

"It's not my fault you swallow everything media feeds you"

It’s not our fault you believe everything you read on abovetopsecret and can’t get passed the idea that not everything is a conspiracy, the world isn’t going to end in 2012, and Obama wasn't born in Kenya.


Honestly, stop creeping all over the internet for New World Order/2012 conspiracies that rely on drawing conclusions without any facts. (Obama has an election coming up (even though it's not until 2012), therefore, this was done to boost Obama's ratings. When you actually think about it, it's completely absurd and relies on absolutely NO evidence.) It's not difficult to read a newspaper, it's not difficult to find facts, being skeptical and cautious aren't bad and they shouldn't be discouraged, but the stuff some of you are putting out is so ridiculous. If you don't think Osama was killed, saying "why'd they bury him at sea" when a plausible answer has already been given, doesn't justify your skepticism. No, the government hasn't always told the truth, but the "fallacies" you guys are coming up with are just absurd and have no basis.

And to the person that said "way to stereotype" when someone said Pakistan might be in on it, some of the most reputable news organizations have suggested the same thing, because in case you don't remember, we found out last year that Pakistan was financially assisting the Taliban.


Edit: Lol out of curiosity I took one of the quotes (Obama is using Bin Laden's death to gain his poll boost, especially because corporations and criminal politicians are scared of Ron Paul's rising popularity) and typed it in google, and the first thing that popped up was abovetopsecret LOL!!

Originally Posted by Icecream

You are an idiot. I am sorry but you just are and so are the people liking your post.

I am a Muslim and I study the Quran and Hadith.

In Islam, as the Prophet said, Islamic burial is always done in the land unless you live underwater.

It's funny you just used Wikipedia because it is the most trustworthy source (sarcasm). Fail.

Matched his DNA ? Yeah with what ? You need something else like a hair to match it with. I am pretty sure they didn't have that. And now there is no way of reconfirming the tests because the body was disposed of.

What is Alqaeda going to do if pictures are released ? You guys talk about that group as if it was ran by immortals or something. Are they going to retaliate ? Yes, they attack without any reasons anyway. And the USA is the strongest military force to exist, I am pretty sure they learned from 9/11 and the underwear bomber. So the chances of Alqaeda doing damage is slim.

Again, you are just someone who likes to label. It's one of your tactics. I do believe Obama was born in Hawaii and that the world will continue after 2012.

The difference is, I believe in facts. Obama's government has yet to show a proof.

It's like Science. Showing that the Earth is older than 6000 years is always going to have skeptics but we show the proof to the public anyway. Scientific analysis, studies and proof is always available to the public.

Forget about Ron Paul, Obama is loosing popularity before Osama's "death". Look at the polls, it's all public knowledge.

You assume I read from "Abovetopsecret". I don't. That's like saying because I believe in God, I read everything on a Christian website. You just failed. You are assuming too much and you can't see the line between fact and fiction.

You are just a US government worshiper. I wasn't making any crazy assumptions, just asking questions. WHERE IS THE PROOF ?!

You seem to have a problem with skepticism but skepticism is what makes things move forward. The Republic of the USA was made out of skepticism agaisnt Royalty. Questioning the government is what democracy has always been about. Even in Science, skepticism was always fruitful. The Theory of the Big Bang, was not accepted at all until scientists discovered the light of the Big Bang. Skepticism is important and it should exist especially when no proof has been shown. For when skepticism dies, science stops. Take Medieval Europe where almost everyone believed in the Church and no one was allowed to question. That was the Dark Ages.

Just taking a quick search, you're wrong about the burial thing.

The DNA test can be done against his family members (the Bin Laden family are well known).

YES, they will retaliate. They are fanatics. Releasing the photos produces no positive benefits and has many negative possible consequences, but widthholding them has no negatives.

The rest of your post is just nonsense.

Originally Posted by Icecream

EDIT : YOU ARE A LIAR. I looked in the wiki article and no where did it mention the word sea or any words you just quoted. Go to Hell.

Subwiki reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burial_at_sea#Islam

Subsub original source:
http://www.al-islam.org/laws/burial.html


Herp derp

Originally Posted by RyanC

Just taking a quick search, you're wrong about the burial thing.

The DNA test can be done against his family members (the Bin Laden family are well known).

YES, they will retaliate. They are fanatics. Releasing the photos produces no positive benefits and has many negative possible consequences, but widthholding them has no negatives.

The rest of your post is just nonsense.

Lol, DNA profiling and y-chromosone DNA testing are two different things.

DNA is unique to each person, looking at a brother or father just tells who your group lineage (for example if you are connected to Genghis Khan or not).

If it's just nonsense why can't you refute it ?

Al Qaeda attacks anyway, provoking them or not. And I am pretty sure the USA learned from 9/11 mistake and the underwear bomber. With all the tight security, Al Qaeda can't do much unless they get their hands on a nuke and figure out how to use it.

EDIT : OMG....

IN ISLAM, WE GET OUR STUFF FROM QURAN OR HADITH. THAT's ALL. THAT WEBSITE DOESN'T SHOW SOURCES OF QURAN OR HADITH. Hadith is the sayings of prophet (either from Sahih Muslim or Al bukhari's collection. Sahih Muslim and Bukhari were two great Muslim scholars who collected the sayings of the Prophet which were witnessed by many companions or very trustworthy ones.

Originally Posted by Icecream

Lol, DNA profiling and y-chromosone DNA testing are two different things.

DNA is unique to each person, looking at a brother or father just tells who your group lineage (for example if you are connected to Genghis Khan or not).

If it's just nonsense why can't you refute it ?

Al Qaeda attacks anyway, provoking them or not. And I am pretty sure the USA learned from 9/11 mistake and the underwear bomber. With all the tight security, Al Qaeda can't do much unless they get their hands on a nuke and figure out how to use it.

Taking DNA samples, within a genetic analysis scope, can give you a high probability matching and is largely the basis for modern law...

Because you're not worth responding to, for the most part.

edit: also because im at work

Icecream says:

"You are an idiot. I am sorry but you just are and so are the people liking your post.

I am a Muslim and I study the Quran and Hadith.

EDIT : YOU ARE A LIAR. I looked in the wiki article and no where did it mention the word sea or any words you just quoted. Go to Hell."

Lmao way to make Muslims look like *******s, condemning people to hell.