[Kathy2]

I know we won 18-0, but we shouldn't be punished for being good. If people don't want to pay to see those kinds of games, they don't have to - but they do. That's like saying Tiger Woods should have left golf a few years ago because he was too good, and I don't agree with that.

[lawleypop]

Right, but there are actually people out there who can compete against Tiger Woods.

[reeves]

Originally Posted by Kathy2

I know we won 18-0, but we shouldn't be punished for being good. If people don't want to pay to see those kinds of games, they don't have to - but they do. That's like saying Tiger Woods should have left golf a few years ago because he was too good, and I don't agree with that.

In the history of women's hockey, Teams Canada and US have combined for a total of 1 loss to any team other than each other, when the US lost to Sweden by one goal in the 2006 Olympics. This year, Canada outscored their opponents 41-2, and US outscored theirs 31-1, JUST in the preliminary round.

You call that competition?

EDIT: No ones telling them to leave forever. He's telling them get better and come back. Considering the Olympic Charter states "to encourage and support the organisation, development and coordination of sport and sports competitions" as one of their roles, its not really in Team China or Team Slovakia's best interest to go get the shit kicked out of them in front of a billion or more people around the world watching, since taking a pummeling in front of a crowd like that doesnt really encourage development. All it does is embarrass and demoralize.

[Kathy2]

Originally Posted by reeves

In the history of women's hockey, Teams Canada and US have combined for a total of 1 loss to any team other than each other, when the US lost to Sweden by one goal in the 2006 Olympics. This year, Canada outscored their opponents 41-2, and US outscored theirs 31-1, JUST in the preliminary round.

You call that competition?

So they should be removed because they are good..? That makes no sense and it's not fair. Where do you draw the line? What if we won 25-1, or 15-3? It's not our fault they aren't as good as us.

[reeves]

Originally Posted by Kathy2

So they should be removed because they are good..? That makes no sense and it's not fair. Where do you draw the line? What if we won 25-1, or 15-3? It's not our fault they aren't as good as us.

No, they should be removed because all it is, is Canada vs the US, not a worldwide competition like the Olympics is meant to be. Once the other countries become competitive, get back in the Olympics. But right now, it's just not fair to the countries developing a hockey program to travel across the world to get their asses kicked in front of the world.

[syan9184]

Yes they could feel humiliated.
But if you look at the other way, getting their asses kicked may be good for them. Then the countries will start funding the teams more so that they won't have to go through the humiliation again.
And also, for the womens teams, the Winter Olympics is the only way for them to be recognized by people. You don't hear about them any other times except during the Olympics. So getting rid of womens hockey in the Olympics would be a huge blow to female hockey players.

[reeves]

Originally Posted by syan9184

Yes they could feel humiliated.
But if you look at the other way, getting their asses kicked may be good for them. Then the countries will start funding the teams more so that they won't have to go through the humiliation again.
And also, for the womens teams, the Winter Olympics is the only way for them to be recognized by people. You don't hear about them any other times except during the Olympics. So getting rid of womens hockey in the Olympics would be a huge blow to female hockey players.

I hear about womens hockey every year at the World Championships. They still have their annual contests. The only thing that would change is the Olympics, and even that would be temporary, until the other teams are more competitive. Theres a difference between losing horribly when hockey fans are watching vs when the entire world is watching.

[temara.brown]

There was a debate about keeping women's hockey on tv. One of the arguments someone made was that in a skiing (I think) event back in the day, Germany always pwned its competitors for many years and yet they still kept the sport in. Now the game has evened out.

[JeffB]

If you want to develop the sport at an international level though it has to be in the Olympics. Its the highest profile event for all of these sports except for men's hockey.
Womens hockey won't develop as quickly if it is removed from the Olympics because fewer people will be aware of its existence and therefore wont join the sport.

[sf]

A lot of people don't realize that these woman's hockey teams that keep getting their asses kicked are not as upset with it as people think. Team China spent months in Canada playing a bunch of girl's team throughout the country to prepare, so of course they know what they are getting into by playing in the olympics. They lost to teams that are not anywhere close to the calibre of the Canadian wonan's team. By coming to the olypics they are getting exposure, something that is vital in countries where hockey is not a dominant sport. Teams are not going to get better if they don't play the better teams, so why not int he olympics? Girls in other countries can watch their contry play and see that there is a future for them in hockey, this won't happen if it is removed frokm the olympics. Why should we be punished for being better than everyone else?
Also, I really don't see how this is much different that the World Junior situation, look at who has wont the last medals there...Canada and the US...

[reeves]

Originally Posted by stephfraser

Girls in other countries can watch their contry play and see that there is a future for them in hockey, this won't happen if it is removed frokm the olympics. Why should we be punished for being better than everyone else?
Also, I really don't see how this is much different that the World Junior situation, look at who has wont the last medals there...Canada and the US...

Girls can also watch those same teams play the same dominant teams in the Worlds every year. It's not a punishment for being good or bad. Its a mater of competition and interest. There's little interest in women's hockey, and that's not gonna change until the games are more enjoyable to watch, and that won't happen until the teams are more level. As long as the interest isn't there, they're gonna want to fold it. Just like the NHL did in Hartford, Kansas City, Winnipeg, Cleveland, Quebec City, etc.

It's different from the world juniors because there, you're talking about going back 7 years to see a non-North American winner, and that European reign lasted 6 years. So roughly half of the last 13 years have been "foreign". In the women's however, Canada or the US has won every single title (Olympics, Worlds, Pacific Rim, 4 Nations) since its inception in 1990. Thats the difference.

[sf]

Well, the World Championships does not get a lot of coverage, especially in other countries, so women's hockey is relying on the high profile of the olympics to create more viewers and get the sport more attention.
Why should we be concerned with the people who aren't intereted in the game, should we not be catering to the people who do want to watch. And judging by the crowds there are lots of people who want to watch.
Men's hockey started out basically the same way yet it was given time to grow and look at it now. Instead of trying to get rid of women's hockey the IOC should be concerned with helping to increase the quality. This can easily be done by just lobbying for these teams to get more funding. Not every country takes men's or women's hockey as seriusly as we do so it is going to take time for the sport to grow. I don't think that means that we should basically demote it right now, that would be taking a huge step backwards.
And there is evidence of teams getting better...Sweden won the silver in Turin, not the US, which caused them to get more funding and support. Sure it didnt work out for them this year but they will get better with continued support and funding. They wouldn't have got as much if they had got a silver at the World Championships, since the olypmics are clearly much bigger and get a lot more attention.

[sew12]

If they drop Women's Hockey from the Olympic level they are essentially delivering the death blow to Women's Hockey programs in many countries.

If they can't compete in the Olympics their Countries will not continue to fund Women's Hockey programs and therefore they will never get better and Women's Hockey will never be allowed back into the Olympics again.

Eliminating Women's Hockey from the Olympics is not the way to create a more even playing field. Keeping it in and allowing it a few more years to develop is the only way things will change.

Also yes I do think think this is somewhat sexist, if this were a Men's sport or Men's hockey was not on a level playing field I don't think they would be calling for its removal after only 4 Olympic games.

[reeves]

Originally Posted by sew12

If they drop Women's Hockey from the Olympic level they are essentially delivering the death blow to Women's Hockey programs in many countries.

If they can't compete in the Olympics their Countries will not continue to fund Women's Hockey programs and therefore they will never get better and Women's Hockey will never be allowed back into the Olympics again.

Eliminating Women's Hockey from the Olympics is not the way to create a more even playing field. Keeping it in and allowing it a few more years to develop is the only way things will change.

Also yes I do think think this is somewhat sexist, if this were a Men's sport or Men's hockey was not on a level playing field I don't think they would be calling for its removal after only 4 Olympic games.

Womens hockey boomed years before it entered the Olympics. It got big enough to warrant a world championship 8 years before it hit the Olympics. The funding was there before the olympics, and it will be after the olympics.

You can speculate on what would/would not happen if this was a men's sport, but it's only speculation. Don't go crying sexism just because it so happens that it's a womens event. Theres no other sport in the Olympics, summer or winter, where there is as little competition as womens hockey. Looking at the discontinued olympic events, many were sports that were traditionally "male" games, like baseball, polo and cricket. Many were also cancelled after one or 2 olympics, not 4.

[myoozik]

in other news:

holy craaaaaap did anybody else see Jesse Lumsden (MAC Alumni who is on one of Canada's Olympic bobsleigh teams) being interviewed after the men's four-man bobsleigh final? He was wearing some shirt that had the Marauder "M" logo on it. I think I'm tripping out way too much, but I thought it was pretty sick.