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Old 06-18-2008 at 10:44 AM   #31
kokosas
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Katie please don't put words in my mouth. We're not 'snobby' or think that we're the best.

I'm glad that your brother was not the norm and that he did well for himself, really I am. But he's not the norm. And I do not retract my statement that getting a 78% in high school should not be hard. Call me a perfectionist or whatever you choose but to me a 78% in anything is an abysmal mark.

Every university has different standards and if someone fails to meet those standards then I am sorry for them but that doesn't change the facts. Guelph has a lower cut off than Mac but that doesn't make McMaster 'snobby'. And ferreinm is correct in saying that Mac has to be more selective now that it's getting a lot more applications than anticipated.
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Old 06-18-2008 at 02:50 PM   #32
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lets not all start to quarrel now , we all have different opinions regarding this some of the prospective students are just worried that thier admissions are at stake because , now that they have given the exams ... they might go up and down and if they do what happens to them if its below 78 like what will they do if thier average is 75? since they have already rejected the other universities to pursue studies at mac and mac does not accept summer school marks!!!!
Old 06-18-2008 at 03:09 PM   #33
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I absolutely agree that Mac should have a cut off range, or course, every university does! I was just really offended by Kokosas's statement earlier. No matter how you look at it, not everyone can do well in high school. Sooo much happens to people in highschool. In grade nine and ten I had a 90+ average. Then, in January of my 11th grade year, my mom suffered a heart attack, ended up in the hospital right before my exams and I did very poorly on them. Since then I have been diagnosed with numerous health issues and disabilities. My last two years of high school have been very VERY rough. This year, I have maintained a 78% average, and I cant even tell you how hard I had to work for that. I'm telling you this because I dont think that your "average" has anything at all to do with how smart you are, or how well you can potentially do. I had a bad run at highschool, but university is going to be a completely new start for me, and I'm really excited for the chance to start over.

I know that your statement wasn't meant to offend anyone, but its really easy for someone to take that the wrong way. Especially when its someone in my situation. And I'm not the only one in my situation. I know several people in my graduating class who have had to deal with similar struggles, and they are all moving on to University like me. I just dont think its fair to say that someone who doesn't have a 78 in grade 12 shouldnt go to University. You just never know. Everybody has a story

As for what I said about mac being a snobby school that was kind of said in the heat of passion lol, sorry guys. I just dont want to be at a school where I feel inferior all the time, and i feel like I'm going to feel that way at mac :(

Last edited by katie_batt : 06-18-2008 at 03:16 PM. Reason: spelling! :P
Old 06-18-2008 at 03:48 PM   #34
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Wow this got heated...

Katie, I know what you are saying, but you have to realise that the entity controlling admissions is not a person; rather a computerized method. It has to be 'equitable' and so these restrictions are placed on each person accepted. I'm personally very much against our Canadian educational system due to lack of standardized testing leaving marks to be delivered according to the whims of each person's teacher. There is no subjectivity in that, and so a 78 in one school might be just as good as an 82 in another. (Nobody dare argue against that, I can prove it haha.)

On the same token, it is hard for the school to pick and choose and make personal exceptions, due to the amount of time wasted having to deal with each individual. Obviously people's marks slip, but the trend tends to be so due to people's lack of effort after they enter university. I'm guilty of it, and 95% of my graduating class is, and 90% of my friends who are in school also say that their admission marks were higher. The university knows this, and so has to apply these restrictions so that people get that important last bit of school in to a) learn the material which will most likely be taught in PSE and b) to be equitable to the students who are consistent and work hard.

I don't mean to say anything against your personal situation, I just wanted to give a fair assesment of the situation. Also, don't take it against the people at Mac. Trust me, I've been to other schools and I'm quite happy I go to Mac due to the lack of distinct groups that seem to form based on socio-economic, or racial basis at many other schools. Plus I go to Mac and usually thats a pretty big reason why we get so many applicants...

Hahaha.
Old 06-18-2008 at 04:10 PM   #35
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lol thanks deadpool. I know what you guys are saying, believe me. I understand why cut offs are needed and all that. If they werent there, going to University wouldnt be that big of an accomplishement. I just dont really think its fair for anyone to say that someone who has less than a 78% in their grade 12 year should not go to University. I guess I'm just an idealist lol
Old 06-18-2008 at 05:08 PM   #36
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Katie just try your best to do well on your final exams. I want to see you around during welcome week. We don't want people to be rejected from residence but that's just how it is. I went through a lot in my final year of high school too-- I dropped out, came back, got kicked out, came back, major break up, hospitalization and my cousin died. that all happened in less than a year. I still scraped by and got into residence. It isn't impossible. We all have hard times in our lives we just have to make the best of it. you can't change the past but you can change the future. Focus on the exams you have now and talk to your teachers for last minute sucking up!
Old 06-18-2008 at 07:10 PM   #37
lorend
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We're not saying that people shouldn't, or don't derserve to go to university. Mac (and almost every other post-secondary education, if not all of them) have continuing ed options. So even if you didn't perform to the neccessary level in high school, you can have a chance later in life. Or, you can go back for a fifth year (as weird as that sounds to most of you young'uns) and re-apply after taking more courses/raising your grades.

I'd also like to point out that acceptance requirements have dropped for most programs at Mac. When I applied automatic acceptance into residence was 80%. Acceptance into Health Sci was 92-93%, Arts Sci was 90%, Soc Sci was 82%, and Humanities was 80%. I had to work my ass off in my highschool (where an 80% there was an 85-90% in other schools, and so far is the only school I know of with an 85% Honor Roll [I agree with you Rohan!!!!]) to get here.

School sucks and life isn't fair, but eventually you can reach your goals no matter how impossible they may seem.
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Old 06-18-2008 at 08:26 PM   #38
katie_batt
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lorend: about reaching your goals, thats exactly what I'm saying!! I just dont think that someone who get just below 78% should be completely discouraged from University!! They can do whatever they put their mind to!
Old 06-18-2008 at 09:06 PM   #39
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Kind of off topic, but did any of you read Death of a Salesman in Grade 12 English? I did, and it really opened my mind to this subject.

I for one, don't think anyone can do whatever they want. I know people who are dead-set on going to university...they try hard and get average marks in high-school, but dont excel, and manage to squeek by the cut-off and get in to certain universities (most of these types of people I know end up going to UOttawa for some reason :S). They then do badly in university and usually drop down to a college program that they can excel in.

Though your right Katie, that your high-school average is not necessarily a very good indicator of you actual intelligence. I also, however, think that there is much to much pressure on students these days to go into university. Alot of people who get averages in the 70s and barely get into university, though Im sure there are exceptions, dont usually excel at it and aren't really doing what they would be best at.

I think, unless you can pinpoint your lower grades to an external issue (like the ones you mentioned Katie, which I totally agree can negatively impact your mark), rather than your own lack of ambition or intelligence, certain people should rethink their post secondary options.
Old 06-18-2008 at 09:19 PM   #40
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good point j-met. I read death of a salesman in grade 11, very depressing lol. I totally know what you mean, and I think there is too much of a pressure on students to go to university. Lots of people feel like University is the only option, but theres nothing wrong with going to college! I know that at my school, even though its not intentional, people who go to college are sort of "looked down upon" which sucks.

But Like I said before, I think I am just a really big optimist. I like to believe that everyone can do anything! lol

Coming from personal experience, I actually found that Mac was the most accomindating and understanding school there was! thats why I chose it! I've met with lots of different people at mac (staff), and have recieved lots of help from them which is great.

Last edited by katie_batt : 06-18-2008 at 09:21 PM.
Old 06-19-2008 at 02:50 PM   #41
Chad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katie_batt View Post
lorend: about reaching your goals, thats exactly what I'm saying!! I just dont think that someone who get just below 78% should be completely discouraged from University!! They can do whatever they put their mind to!
Looks like a lot of opinions are being thrown around in this thread, but we all seem to have a similar general conclusion: university needs standards and cut offs, but for those who were not able to meet those cut offs (unexpected circumstances, needing more time, etc), they are no less worthy of university than the rest of us and do have the potential of doing amazing things in their life. As previously mentioned, the opportunity of doing a fifth year or going into the workforce and doing continuing education later, means that these individuals do have a chance to try again and continue trying to prove that they are capable of achieving above and beyond those cut-off grades. No one is holding them back, it can be done.

But onto the point about university prestigious. Sure, doctors and those with PhD's attend university and we hold these people in high regard, but not all amazing people in the universe went to university. Albert Einstein dropped out of school AND failed mathematics while in school as a child, yet became one of the most well-known geniuses to have lived on earth. Skilled trades are also in high demand right now and pay good money, yet you do not need to go to university to get into a skilled trade. The examples go on and on.

So Katie, while I agree that Kokosas's statement may have sounded harsh, I believe she was bringing up the idea of university degrees being competitive in nature and that top marks are what get you through university - not personality, character, talents, and all the other aspects that make a good person. So in order to succeed (by university standards) you would need to be able to get better than their cut off to be accepted - and if you're planning on attending university that it is marks you need to strive for. Now she obviously didn't mention that there are situations that can not be avoided which can hold people back, you mentioned a few, and those are unfortunate. But she didn't say that people who didn't make the cut off the first time should be discouraged or that they are any less of a person than anyone else, they just need to try again to boost their marks up to what the university is looking for, and as I said earlier - they can do it if they set their mind to it.
Old 06-19-2008 at 03:26 PM   #42
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Also, if you really want to get to university you can always stay back a year in high school. I know a ton of people who did that and they're happier with their choice. If at first you don't succeed dust yourself off and try again
Old 06-19-2008 at 03:34 PM   #43
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but what about a person who is very close to the cutoff lets say 77 percent (if the cutoff is said to 78%)what should be done with him , should the university reject him or just decline him the residence
Old 06-19-2008 at 03:55 PM   #44
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There is a fine balance between being proud of the school that you attend, and being snobby about it.

There is truth that your grades in highschool do not determine your worth - but universities don't really have any other practical way to assess you. Unless you intend to go into a fine arts program (where you need an audition or portfolio), the university has to trust to the scores that your teachers and final exams gave you .

I for one am proud to go to this school because of its good reputation - and the good reputation it will give to my degree after I get it.
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Old 06-19-2008 at 03:58 PM   #45
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If you meet the requirements for your program, regardless of your acceptance into residence, you can still get in. However, there is a cap on the number of students any program can accept (there are only so many professors and buildings, after all) so if your program is especially popular, or has a lot of applicants with really high grades, it gets harder to get into it
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