Originally Posted by reeves

http://www.nosmokingegypt.ne t/Summ...20shisha.p df

And

http://www.emro.who.int/tfi/PDF/shisha.pdf

Apparently, it's much worse than you think.

First of all the first "summary" is from the 2nd link you gave. Second of all in their study they are comparing people using it up to 4 times a day which is ridiculous because everyone I see smoking it does it max once per day and most people do it less than that. I know this because recently I have been doing it everyday with my friends. Not to mention the owner of the place (which is pretty much the only exception) who does it multiple times per day and he is in his 40's is healthy as a horse. Thirdly, you are retarded if you think that cigarette tobacco is the same as sheesha tobacco. I've dealt with both first hand and the potency of cigarette tobacco is clearly overwhelming. Sheesha tobacco doesn't even smell like tobacco because at least half of it is molasses and you can't smell any potent chemicals. And like I said before where have you heard people dying from smoking sheesha. On the other hand, people dying due to cigarette smoking is exponentially higher than any sheesha related deaths.

I rest my case.

Originally Posted by EasternHeat

First of all the first "summary" is from the 2nd link you gave. Second of all in their study they are comparing people using it up to 4 times a day which is ridiculous because everyone I see smoking it does it max once per day and most people do it less than that. I know this because recently I have been doing it everyday with my friends. Not to mention the owner of the place (which is pretty much the only exception) who does it multiple times per day and he is in his 40's is healthy as a horse. Thirdly, you are retarded if you think that cigarette tobacco is the same as sheesha tobacco. I've dealt with both first hand and the potency of cigarette tobacco is clearly overwhelming. Sheesha tobacco doesn't even smell like tobacco because at least half of it is molasses and you can't smell any potent chemicals. And like I said before where have you heard people dying from smoking sheesha. On the other hand, people dying due to cigarette smoking is exponentially higher than any sheesha related deaths.

I rest my case.

I don't really want to get involved with this whole argument over sheesha thing; but all your evidence is based on your personal experience and a few people you know, while the evidence the others are presenting is based on surveys and statistics :/.

Originally Posted by EasternHeat

First of all the first "summary" is from the 2nd link you gave. Second of all in their study they are comparing people using it up to 4 times a day which is ridiculous because everyone I see smoking it does it max once per day and most people do it less than that. I know this because recently I have been doing it everyday with my friends. Not to mention the owner of the place (which is pretty much the only exception) who does it multiple times per day and he is in his 40's is healthy as a horse. Thirdly, you are retarded if you think that cigarette tobacco is the same as sheesha tobacco. I've dealt with both first hand and the potency of cigarette tobacco is clearly overwhelming. Sheesha tobacco doesn't even smell like tobacco because at least half of it is molasses and you can't smell any potent chemicals. And like I said before where have you heard people dying from smoking sheesha. On the other hand, people dying due to cigarette smoking is exponentially higher than any sheesha related deaths.

I rest my case.

Wow. Just wow. Denying it doesnt make it true.

I've smoked for 17 years. I feel NO impact whatsoever when I have a cigarette. So according to your " I've dealt with both first hand and the potency of cigarette tobacco is clearly overwhelming", if it doesn't overwhelm me, it must be ok. I feel "as healthy as a horse" too. Does that make it true, despite my smoking habit?

Read the studies dude. The WHO isn't 100% accurate, but they usually have a good idea of what they're talking about.

"According to a 2005 publication of the Tobacco Product Regulation, a division of the World Health Organization, smoking shisha is “not a safe alternative to cigarette smoking.” The study found that one session of smoking shisha was equal to smoking 100 or more cigarettes.
This is because while cigarette smokers usually spend about five minutes smoking, shisha smokers will take anywhere between 20 to 80 minutes. And although the water filters out some of the nicotine, tar and other chemicals, the sheer volume of smoke being consumed makes up for the small percentage of bad ingredients that are filtered out.
Dr. Lutz Forkert, associate professor in the School of Medicine, said the volume of smoke is what makes shisha harmful.
“The volume of smoke in a bowl is much higher than a cigarette. … Therefore, it must be that the effects are worse,” he said.
This means shisha smokers are still at risk of many ailments, inculding cancer, heart disease, respiratory disease, impotency, infertility and complications during pregnancy. The added nicotine also makes shisha just as addictive as cigarettes."


from http://www.queensjournal.ca/story/20...older-sibling/


theres countless more out there if you look it up.

EDIT: As I said before, I just want to make sure people know the (potential) consequences of what they're smoking.

Originally Posted by reeves

Wow. Just wow. Denying it doesnt make it true.

I've smoked for 17 years. I feel NO impact whatsoever when I have a cigarette. So according to your " I've dealt with both first hand and the potency of cigarette tobacco is clearly overwhelming", if it doesn't overwhelm me, it must be ok. I feel "as healthy as a horse" too. Does that make it true, despite my smoking habit?

Read the studies dude. The WHO isn't 100% accurate, but they usually have a good idea of what they're talking about.

"According to a 2005 publication of the Tobacco Product Regulation, a division of the World Health Organization, smoking shisha is “not a safe alternative to cigarette smoking.” The study found that one session of smoking shisha was equal to smoking 100 or more cigarettes.
This is because while cigarette smokers usually spend about five minutes smoking, shisha smokers will take anywhere between 20 to 80 minutes. And although the water filters out some of the nicotine, tar and other chemicals, the sheer volume of smoke being consumed makes up for the small percentage of bad ingredients that are filtered out.
Dr. Lutz Forkert, associate professor in the School of Medicine, said the volume of smoke is what makes shisha harmful.
“The volume of smoke in a bowl is much higher than a cigarette. … Therefore, it must be that the effects are worse,” he said.
This means shisha smokers are still at risk of many ailments, inculding cancer, heart disease, respiratory disease, impotency, infertility and complications during pregnancy. The added nicotine also makes shisha just as addictive as cigarettes."


from http://www.queensjournal.ca/story/20...older-sibling/


theres countless more out there if you look it up.

First of all I was comparing the potency of cigarettes to shisha from someone who hasn't smoked cigarettes and thus would be able to tell the differnce. For you its nothing because you have smoked. For me and for many other we can tell because we havn't and so Yes cigarette tobacco from our perspective (because we can actually tell the difference being non [cigarette] smokers) is much much worse smelling and tasting, major difference.

Second of all I've already talked about the amount of SMOKE sheesha makes. Yes it makes much more smoke I've aknowedged that and I've said that any amount of smoke is bad for you. The difference I pointed out was that cigarette smoke contains many worse chemicals than sheesha smoke as has been advertised by the government of Canada on national t.v.

Originally Posted by Ownaginatios

I don't really want to get involved with this whole argument over sheesha thing; but all your evidence is based on your personal experience and a few people you know, while the evidence the others are presenting is based on surveys and statistics :/.

What is there evidence? Did they tell us what chemicals where in sheesha tobacco compared to cigarette tobacco? I don't think so. And where are the statistics for the deaths related to sheesha smoking?

Chemicals are worse than smoke in my opinion. And its already been proven thats there are thousands of chemicals in cigarette smoke with many many of them being carcinogens and other harsh chemicals. Any documented cases of sheesha tobacco with those chemicals? NONE. Thank you.

EDIT: btw just to state my position. I don't deny sheesha smoke is bad. I've already said any smoke is bad. I just believe there is no way sheesha is worse than smoking cigarettes. Especially with the low frequency that people do it and with the high frequency that people smoke cigarettes (as well was the fact of the chemicals in each type).

Originally Posted by EasternHeat

What is there evidence? Did they tell us what chemicals where in sheesha tobacco compared to cigarette tobacco? I don't think so. And where are the statistics for the deaths related to sheesha smoking?

Chemicals are worse than smoke in my opinion. And its already been proven thats there are thousands of chemicals in cigarette smoke with many many of them being carcinogens and other harsh chemicals. Any documented cases of sheesha tobacco with those chemicals? NONE. Thank you.

"The coals used to burn the shisha contain carbon monoxide, heavy metals and other cancer-causing chemicals even after it has passed through the water."

From the same article previously linked to. Read some of the studies, for your own good.

Originally Posted by EasternHeat

Chemicals are worse than smoke in my opinion. And its already been proven thats there are thousands of chemicals in cigarette smoke with many many of them being carcinogens and other harsh chemicals. Any documented cases of sheesha tobacco with those chemicals? NONE. Thank you.

Well, that's your opinion man, and just because it is, it doesn't mean it's 100% right.

As Mark stated, the shear volume of smoke you inhale from a smoking session of sheesha is far greater than that of cigarettes. Sure, cigarettes have more toxic chemicals, but one who smokes cigarettes isn't nearly inhaling as much smoke as one does with sheesha, and that amount of smoke alone can overpower the potency of the chemicals in a cigarette.

And for the record, just because cigarettes contain lots of carcinogens, it doesn't mean sheesha contains none. Burning pretty much anything carbon based releases lots of benzene based molecules, which typically are carcinogenic.

Originally Posted by reeves

"The coals used to burn the shisha contain carbon monoxide, heavy metals and other cancer-causing chemicals even after it has passed through the water."

From the same article previously linked to. Read some of the studies, for your own good.

LOL so based on that statement, barbecuing is now dangerous for you. Good job.

Also, the coals that are burned are over a piece of tin foil, please tell me how you would be inhaling coal? The coal is only there to heat the sheesha, not to smoke it.

Originally Posted by Ownaginatios

Well, that's your opinion man, and just because it is, it doesn't mean it's 100% right.

As Mark stated, the shear volume of smoke you inhale from a smoking session of sheesha is far greater than that of cigarettes. Sure, cigarettes have more toxic chemicals, but one who smokes cigarettes isn't nearly inhaling as much smoke as one does with sheesha, and that amount of smoke alone can overpower the potency of the chemicals in a cigarette.

And for the record, just because cigarettes contain lots of carcinogens, it doesn't mean sheesha contains none. Burning pretty much anything carbon based releases lots of benzene based molecules, which typically are carcinogenic.

I'm not saying I'm 100% right, I'm just stating my opinion based on facts and experience. And no that smoke does not match the potency of cigarettes because I have tried cigarettes and I can barely stand one puff of it. While I can go a while with sheesha smoke. Clearly your body is telling you something about the harshness of the substances involved if you can hardly take any of it. So no the amount of smoke that sheesha produces cannot equal the powerful chemicals cigarette tobacco contains.

Plus I highly doubt a cigarette company had nothing to do with some studies to make it look like cigarettes are not as bad. After all there use to be scientific studies sponsored by tobacco companies that said cigarette tobacco was fine for you. Not to mention how many times scientific papers contradict each other every other day. "This is bad for you, oh wait not its good, no no we were wrong its bad, well it is still kind of good..."

Originally Posted by EasternHeat

LOL so based on that statement, barbecuing is now dangerous for you. Good job.

Also, the coals that are burned are over a piece of tin foil, please tell me how you would be inhaling coal? The coal is only there to heat the sheesha, not to smoke it.

You're not inhaling the barbecue smoke in large quantities.

Smoke will still escape from the tin foil. Where air can enter, smoke can exit.

Originally Posted by jhan523

You're not inhaling the barbecue smoke in large quantities.

Smoke will still escape from the tin foil. Where air can enter, smoke can exit.

The barbecue smoke goes all over the meat, you don't have to inhale it.

And have you ever done sheesha before? Smoke does not come out of the tin foil, in fact its impossible unless your doing it the wrong way (by exhaling into the hose) which means your not even doing sheesha because nothing happens...

Originally Posted by EasternHeat

And no that smoke does not match the potency of cigarettes because I have tried cigarettes and I can barely stand one puff of it. While I can go a while with sheesha smoke. Clearly your body is telling you something about the harshness of the substances involved if you can hardly take any of it. So no the amount of smoke that sheesha produces cannot equal the powerful chemicals cigarette tobacco contains.

The reason your body doesn't "react" to sheesha smoke is because it's hydrated and cooled. The smoke from a cigarette is usually hot and dry.

I'm not saying that one puff of a sheesha is worse than that of a cigarette. The argument here is that although sheesha smoke is "less harsh" than cigarette smoke, the amount you inhale is still far greater than one normally would from a single cigarette. Therefore, although you may not get as many of the cigarette specific carcinogens, you get other things present in both types of smoke in higher quantities (i.e. tar, carbon monoxide .etc), which can be detrimental in similar ways to those aforementioned carcinogens.

Originally Posted by EasternHeat

LOL so based on that statement, barbecuing is now dangerous for you. Good job.

Also, the coals that are burned are over a piece of tin foil, please tell me how you would be inhaling coal? The coal is only there to heat the sheesha, not to smoke it.

I guess the World Health Organization, with over 8000 "public health experts including doctors, epidemiologists, scientists, managers, and administrators" in "6 regional offices located around the world and 147 individual country offices"(http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/564948_5) are influenced by tobacco companies against shisha and collectively know less than a single 19 year old about to start university. I should have known. Those silly doctors and scientists with all their stats and studies. They would know so much more if they were teens that smoked a lil sheesh. I'm done.

Originally Posted by Ownaginatios

The reason your body doesn't "react" to sheesha smoke is because it's hydrated and cooled. The smoke from a cigarette is usually hot and dry.

I'm not saying that one puff of a sheesha is worse than that of a cigarette. The argument here is that although sheesha smoke is "less harsh" than cigarette smoke, the amount you inhale is still far greater than one normally would from a single cigarette. Therefore, although you may not get as many of the cigarette specific carcinogens, you get other things present in both types of smoke in higher quantities (i.e. tar, carbon monoxide .etc), which can be detrimental in similar ways to those aforementioned carcinogens.

Well, like I've pointed out I agree sheesha isn't healthy for you at all, however if you add up everything together sheesha is less harmful than cigarette smoking. Why? Because sheesha use (frequency of use, not duration of use) is many times less than stated in any of the studies anyone has provided yet. Second, cigarette tobacco is much more potent and harsher than sheesha tobacco. Third, people who smoke cigarettes usually smoke a lot (not just one a day).

So where does this leave us. Well sheesha definitely produces more smoke which is bad for you. However, cigarettes produce harsher smoke because it contains more chemicals. Sheesha use is much less than that of cigarettes (frequency).

FINDINGS:

- smoking cigarettes is bad for you
- smoking sheesha is bad for you
- smoking anything is bad for you
- cigarettes are worse for you than sheesha (based on actual usage)
- its your life, live it, take everything in moderation

Fair enough, I can agree with that. I suppose it is true that a chain smoker does not really equate to a casual sheesha user :p. Hopefully this argument is now over and we can get back to interesting facts !