Originally Posted by Eugene

Duly noted.

We had about 11% of the union members turned out to vote (out of 2700 members). It doesn't sound like a big number, but the bottom line is that the union execs cared to hear the member's voice to call an emergency meeting on short notice to interact with the members. If anyone were to put themselves in the exec's position for a second, based on the timing of the employer walking away from the table and the first workday of striking approaching, I don't think the chain of events would have gone any differently. While it is true that a larger turn out would have captured a more representative cross-section of the membership, it was the voices of the members that were able to be present at the meeting that was captured for the statistics and decisions to be based upon. In a system based on democracy and vote results, once again I don't imagine the outcome would have been different.

The way things are looking there will be a general membership meeting towards the end of the week, just in a day or two. I am curious myself to see how things evolve as well.

My understanding may be wrong about this, but I thought the Exec was forced to call the meeting by a petition which was submitted.

There was a petition going around, but the meeting was called by the exec proactively so only a 24-hour notice was required prior to the meeting, to fit the meeting in on Sunday before the strike.

I think there was an error in the wording of the petition so that wouldn't have been effective anyways. But whether if that petition or the execs themselves prompted them to call the meeting, I respect them for making it happen such that we were able to have it before the first workday of strike.

Originally Posted by Scrub

can we atleast agree to stop handing out flyers? Its making me sick to see every car get one..only to see them throw it away moments later...Paper waste aint cool people!

That, is truly a shame to the trees. I will bring this up and propose perhaps to offer flyers to drivers that show interest in more info.

I did not make it out to campus today, how is the sound/volume situation like on your side of the res today?

Originally Posted by Eugene

Hi Kathy,

Just to address a few points you have raised and hopefully to clear the air a little.

To bridge the standpoint on the union side and the people affected by the picketing, I can say with certainty that a lot of the people picketing did not want the bargaining to end up with a strike. Fact of the matter is the employer walked away from the bargaining table when the union was willing to negotiate through the weekend in attempt to reach an agreement or at least a tentative agreement before the strike deadline to avert the strike.

The CUPE did call a strike mandate vote in late summer/early fall. They would not have been able to go forward with it without the vote results of the members.

Overall, there must have been over 200 picketers if not more, with a small crowd at the North Cootes entrance, a bigger crowd at the South Cootes entrance, and a sizeable crowd of upwards of 40, 50 people on Stirling. Naturally the pickets are not out there constantly, and at any given time the crowd size does not represent the entire force of the pickets due to the shift system.

Also, at a special general membership meeting held on Sunday, 66% of the members expressed no interest in sending the current offer forward.

That said, majority of the TA's picketing do enjoy TAing and do realize the students are the victim of the strike. The original intention of a strike mandate vote and a (generous) strike deadline was to set an incentive for the employer to come to the table to bargain in good faith. I can say, with full honest, that CUPE HAD been the enthused side with approaching the bargaining table.

I realize a measly post will probably not change many of your opinions and may be inconsequential, but I feel that the facts and the truths should at least be made aware to those that care.

I walk by Sterling every day (and I go out of my way to walk past Cootes every now and then) and there has never been more than 10 people at a time. I find it incredibly hard to believe that 200 people are striking.
Even so, that's only 200 of 2,700. Not a very good turn out at all.

Like another poster said, that 66% was not 66% of the whole union. That was 66% of the VERY few members who showed up at this last minute meeting.
And only 11% of members showed up to the meeting? That's really pathetic. It saddens me that CUPE seriously thinks they are acting in the best interests of the entire union because obviously this isn't the case.

Originally Posted by Kathy2

I walk by Sterling every day (and I go out of my way to walk past Cootes every now and then) and there has never been more than 10 people at a time. I find it incredibly hard to believe that 200 people are striking.
Even so, that's only 200 of 2,700. Not a very good turn out at all.

Like another poster said, that 66% was not 66% of the whole union. That was 66% of the VERY few members who showed up at this last minute meeting.
And only 11% of members showed up to the meeting? That's really pathetic. It saddens me that CUPE seriously thinks they are acting in the best interests of the entire union because obviously this isn't the case.

You make very good points Kathy. The thing with a democratic process is that the results are based on the votes submitted by voters that actually participated in the process. Someone with statistics background will know what's the minimum cross-section required to capture a fair representation of voices across the whole population, but in the case of voting, one can go as far as saying many of the members that did not show up, intentionally, are indifferent in the matter, and the ones that showed up are the ones that had a say and would have been the ones to sway the decisions/vote results anyways.

That said, you're absolutely right. A bigger turn out, stronger support would have made a more convincing case. The meeting was called on (very) short notice for the Sunday following Halloween in attempt to have a meeting after the employer walked away from the table and before the strike, and presumably the turnout would have been more with a bigger heads up. From the union blog it seems like a lot of the members wished to be there but could not make it on short notice.

As I mentioned it seems like there is a general membership meeting happening soon, and I hope one way or another this will push things forward and help reaching a resolution sooner than later.

Re: the number of picketers, I mentioned 200 as a rough estimate of the total number of people that came out. There are at least 4 shifts of picketing per location per day, so if at a time you see a crowd of 10-20 per location I wouldn't have been that much off. A lot of other members are working behind the scene, while some are just indifferent that are not picketing nor continuing to work. I was told that the mid-day shifts had 40-50 people at the Sterling location.

Also, since you were able to make it out, could you fill me in on the noise situation and if you had witnesses any incidents of physics abuse etc.? Thanks,

I would really appreciate it if people stopped walking up to me and trying to get me to take their stupid flyers.

If I was interested in talking to you, I'd talk to you. Simple.

If I said no to the person no the corner, there's no need to ask me again 20 feet down the street.

I'm bringing a lighter tomorrow. Next time someone asks me to take a flyer, I'll take it, and burn it right in front of them.

Yay destruction!

Originally Posted by lawleypop

I would really appreciate it if people stopped walking up to me and trying to get me to take their stupid flyers.

If I was interested in talking to you, I'd talk to you. Simple.

If I said no to the person no the corner, there's no need to ask me again 20 feet down the street.

I'm bringing a lighter tomorrow. Next time someone asks me to take a flyer, I'll take it, and burn it right in front of them.

Yay destruction!

Just a heads up: I'm not sure where the law stands on this, but if you do intend to do this (your statement may have merely been hyperbolic) there is a chance it could get you into trouble with the police.

In general (strictly not speaking strike) is that the best way to avoid having to deal with anybody trying to hand something out is to avoid eye contact, and not to acknowledge their presence. While possibly viewed as rude, it can save everyone from unnecessary conflict.

Originally Posted by talues

Just a heads up: I'm not sure where the law stands on this, but if you do intend to do this (your statement may have merely been hyperbolic) there is a chance it could get you into trouble with the police.

In general (strictly not speaking strike) is that the best way to avoid having to deal with anybody trying to hand something out is to avoid eye contact, and not to acknowledge their presence. While possibly viewed as rude, it can save everyone from unnecessary conflict.

I don't look at them. That's the worst part.
And from what people tell me, I don't look like an approachable person.

Lighting a piece of paper on fire could actually get me in trouble with the law? Didn't know that. I do hate cops though... might be interesting. My life needs some spice.

It's almost like there are no more crackwhores on king and james for the cops to take care of...ohwait.

Cheri:

Noted, and I will point this out on the union blog tonight. I can understand your annoyance with the flyers, and if I was in your shoes I'd probably feel the same.

If you wish to express your annoyance and frustration about the flyers, it's your freedom and your rights to do so. I do however want to caution about burning them, when I was in my undergrad a few of us were written up for something very similar.

Edit: Seems like talues beat me to the punch as I was typing up this response.

P.S. Alright I got to admit your previous post did give me a laugh.

Having broken my ankle the day the strike started is a pain in the ass. I have to park off campus and crutch in, instead of using a handicapped spot. Hospital parking lot to student center takes me 30 minutes or so, and the rerouting of buses completely screws me. I'm going to raise hell next time I have to go to campus.

I don't see why you don't just smile and say no "thank-you", politely but firmly. I mean, I hate what CUPE is doing just as much as every other student, but that is no excuse for poor manners!

Originally Posted by andrew22

and this is why im loling about micadjems and scrub and the silly counterprotests and scrabble.

I don't think it's so silly. Sooo many people voiced their support for what we were doing - we're just representing how we feel.

“We all must fear evil, but the evil we must fear the most is the indifference of good men.”

I guess cupe is the evil... lol

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

I don't see why you don't just smile and say no "thank-you", politely but firmly. I mean, I hate what CUPE is doing just as much as every other student, but that is no excuse for poor manners!

I never said I don't say no thank you? The only time I was even remotely close to "rude" was the first day of the strike, and even then, I was as polite as can be.

Fake it till you make it.

I'm just saying, it pisses me off. I don't like people talking to me in the first place, let alone when I strongly disagree with what they're doing. They don't need to approach me 20 feet later when I've already said no the first horde.

Originally Posted by Phil

Having broken my ankle the day the strike started is a pain in the ass. I have to park off campus and crutch in, instead of using a handicapped spot. Hospital parking lot to student center takes me 30 minutes or so, and the rerouting of buses completely screws me. I'm going to raise hell next time I have to go to campus.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation.

This is just an idea, and I'm not sure how feasible this is, but you may be able to get a special/short term permission from school to use the stretch of road that goes from the engineering side of the campus to the student center side, given the current circumstances.

Edited: My understanding of the picket protocol is that picketing does not happen on the Main Street entrance as to allow special/emergency vehicles to be let through uninterrupted. Given your circumstances, I think a special case can be made.

I am currently looking up the picketing protocol to see what can be done, but try getting in touch with school for the time being.

Originally Posted by lawleypop

I never said I don't say no thank you? The only time I was even remotely close to "rude" was the first day of the strike, and even then, I was as polite as can be.

Fake it till you make it.

I'm just saying, it pisses me off. I don't like people talking to me in the first place, let alone when I strongly disagree with what they're doing. They don't need to approach me 20 feet later when I've already said no the first horde.

I think it's easy for the picketers to be so fixated on handing out flyers to anyone that comes their way and not realize the person they are approaching had been approached just earlier already. But, like I said if I was in your position I'd probably have the same reaction.

Lets say you bite the bullet and take a flyer, force a smile and use that flyer as your...entrance-badge through the rest of the line, that might have a happier ending for both sides. Of course the decision is up to you, and I can not ask you to compromise your values or willingness to show your values for convenience.

Also, "Fake it till you make it." Even though we're on the different side of things and our views don't fully lined up in this thread, I enjoy your posts .