Yes so continue to increase TA wages, that way tuition/supplemental fees increase, good job guys!

/sarcasm

reminder! This thread is about protesting the protest, not about arguing about who the university should fire.

On that note, I'm thinking about PMing the next time I want to go out, as people could easily take the info from here and organize something on the lines.. i dunno.

What do you think?
(I also have a lot of facebook friends to contact! Everyone seems to want to be on this side!)

Originally Posted by macastr

As a TA, I have to say that I take offense to this statement. I would point out that not all TAs have chosen to strike, nor have all TAs chosen to work. Not all are acting in the interests of the greater good, nor are all greedy. To say "fire them all" is just plain impertinent.

I apologize for that, obviously it’s absurd to make such a claim, most T.A’s do care about their students and are passionate about their jobs. But some seem to be forgetting that they once were also undergraduate students. I agree with the post below that there always more ways of getting funds but please don't drag us along with you. Once again I apologize for making that statement.

Originally Posted by IHateCUPE

I apologize for that, obviously it’s absurd to make such a claim, most T.A’s do care about their students and are passionate about their jobs. But they seem to be forgetting that they once were also undergraduate students. I agree with the post below that there always more ways of getting funds but please don't drag us along with you. Once again I apologize for making that statement.

Thanks for the apology; it's appreciated.

The real problem with the disparity between the union members lies in the fact that not all TAs are funded the same way. There is, unfortunately, a lot less funding in the arts faculties than in the sciences (for example); therefore, graduate students do not all rely on their TA wages to the same extent. Additionally, TAs are not treated the same way in different departments (including funding). This is also why there is a lot of protest against the union's sweeping arrangements that do not necessarily benefit all faculties/departments. Some are happy with the modest wage increase offered by the University; for some it isn't enough.

We grad students made a choice to do graduate school, and with the choice comes the understanding of one's financial situation throughout that schooling. Yes, tuition is subject to increases, and it must be taken into account when planning for the future. It is difficult to rely on the fact that you have a union that will bargain this increase away, because the reality is that it just isn't guaranteed. Our current situation is unfortunate, but it's one the of the possible consequences of fighting against a decrease in take-home pay. It's not fair that graduate school isn't a stable process financially, but everyone who chose to become a graduate student signed up for that risk in the interest of benefitting their future. It's a worthwhile risk, but we must plan carefully for the unexpected. Life isn't always fair.

As some one who has been active on the picket lines over the past couple of days, I have to admit its been a mixed experience. I have found a lot of support from students and especially other unionized labour on campus. If you came up Cootes before 11:30 the last two days, I was the girl giving out flyers wearing a red hat.

I can only comment on my line shift. I know we have worked extremely hard to ensure the Hospital entrance remains clear at all times. In fact, there was a woman in line at Cootes that had a surgery but was unable to park her car in the underground parking of the hospital, so we moved quickly to get her through the line.

Obviously the pickets are frustrating. I must tell you, as a graduate student that spends most of her time sitting and reading, standing for 4 hours outside at people's cars trying to address their concerns, is not my ideal way to spend the day either.

But I hope that we can get the message across to students that we find this necessary in order to pressure the University administration to bargain in good faith with us.

I don’t want to be redundant, so while you may disagree with everything CUPE is fighting for (including a better education for you), I ask you to abide by the student code of conduct.

While on the lines, I have encouraged my fellow picketers to respond to swearing, yelling and certain gestures, with a smile and not to allow such situations to escalate. However, we can not do this alone.

Personal and violent attacks on us, only create a negative and unsafe atmosphere at McMaster. Further, rushing the picket lines can not be tolerated. Indeed this is one reason the Hamilton Police is on site with us. Please also remember, that the way in which the picket lines are being run is in accordance with the Strike Protocol, which was negotiated by CUPE, McMaster and the Hamilton Police.

I do encourage anyone who is frustrated to express this to the University. The picketers know it first hand, but it’s important to let the administration know it too. We want to settle this as quickly as possible. In the mean time, I think we can work together to keep this process safe for everyone.


Best,
Jessica Merolli


PS. As for the environmental concerns, I have encouraged people to turn of their cars while they wait. It has been an issue we’ve discussed at length at the line. But being a public transit girl myself, what has been most shocking is the number of single passenger cars that come through. For those concerned about the environment, I encourage you to pressure your students to either use public transit or car pool, whether there is a strike or not!

PPS. On a lighter note, in response to the undergrads living in the residences and their noise concerns – I think you might have an idea of how Westdale residents feel during Frosh Week and keggers. On the plus side, we aren’t puking on your lawns.

Originally Posted by JMerolli

(including a better education for you)

This is debatable, although it's been argued over and over in other threads.

PPS. On a lighter note, in response to the undergrads living in the residences and their noise concerns – I think you might have an idea of how Westdale residents feel during Frosh Week and keggers. On the plus side, we aren’t puking on your lawns.

This doesn't make it right. Simply more evidence of just how inconsiderate CUPE really is.

Originally Posted by macastr

Thanks for the apology; it's appreciated.

The real problem with the disparity between the union members lies in the fact that not all TAs are funded the same way. There is, unfortunately, a lot less funding in the arts faculties than in the sciences (for example); therefore, graduate students do not all rely on their TA wages to the same extent. Additionally, TAs are not treated the same way in different departments (including funding). This is also why there is a lot of protest against the union's sweeping arrangements that do not necessarily benefit all faculties/departments. Some are happy with the modest wage increase offered by the University; for some it isn't enough.

Just out of curiousity, I've heard this before from another TA. Would it be possible to elaborate on this (as a person contemplating graduate school)?

From what I've heard Science/Health Sciences pays students an additional amount for their research. When I was at that graduate scholarship meeting, apparently people in sciences need to get X amount in funding. If the student has a scholarship and a TA-ship, then the supervisor has to subsidize less of that amount. Is that the same thing in humanities/soc sci? Apparently that's where a lot of the issues are.

This doesn't make it right. Simply more evidence of just how inconsiderate CUPE really is.[/quote]


Ben, it was a little joke. I was just trying to inject some humour into this stressful situation. I love in Westdale and think that anti-mac community organization is a little extreme.

However, again I was at that line, and we did hold of the music until 930 to repsect that students need to sleep.

And, using the washroom inside that building, I noted that the noise was negligable. Not sure if it was turn up after I left.

Originally Posted by Jay

Just out of curiousity, I've heard this before from another TA. Would it be possible to elaborate on this (as a person contemplating graduate school)?

From what I've heard Science/Health Sciences pays students an additional amount for their research. When I was at that graduate scholarship meeting, apparently people in sciences need to get X amount in funding. If the student has a scholarship and a TA-ship, then the supervisor has to subsidize less of that amount. Is that the same thing in humanities/soc sci? Apparently that's where a lot of the issues are.

It is SOOO complex in many ways. But to generalize, science students get more "generous offers" which means the scholarship portion of their funding is more. Our TAship amounts are the same (unless you are only offered a "half TAship")

What we should also keep in mind is that while in school, paying tutition, and living, many of us have to pay for our own research projects. For example, my program and research project will require me to go abroad for field research. I will have to fund that myself, if I dont not recieve any external funding. While McMaster has a high rate of students on external funding (which reflects the qualify of grad students here) not everybody gets that money. Also, when you receive external funding, McMaster drops back your scholarship amount. This may have been what the person your spoke to meant.

Basic funding packages vary not only from faculty to faculty but also from department to department. What CUPE is trying to ensure is that those of us on only basic funding or with only small external scholarships (like me) can in fact live off that amount.

Hope that helps a bit.

Originally Posted by Jay

Just out of curiousity, I've heard this before from another TA. Would it be possible to elaborate on this (as a person contemplating graduate school)?

From what I've heard Science/Health Sciences pays students an additional amount for their research. When I was at that graduate scholarship meeting, apparently people in sciences need to get X amount in funding. If the student has a scholarship and a TA-ship, then the supervisor has to subsidize less of that amount. Is that the same thing in humanities/soc sci? Apparently that's where a lot of the issues are.

I can't speak for the humanities/social sci, but my understanding is that in the arts faculties there aren't widespread scholarship options like NSERC/OGS/CIHR as there are for engineering, science, math and health sciences (as I said, I can't really speak for that field, but if someone can, please correct me). For those that are fortunate to be relatively well-funded, there is generally a "minimum" amount of total funding that a student receives (departments post this on their websites). This total includes TA wages, potential department-specific funding, and a stipend in the form of a research scholarship from your supervisor. If you have external scholarships like NSERC, these reduce the amount of funding your supervisor needs to contribute, and you end up making a bit more than the "minimum".

A sticky point is that this minimum funding should be increased each year with tuition (so that departments/supervisors end up getting the bill for tuition increases; this makes sense because departments bring in more money with each student), and thus the financial situation for graduate students shouldn't suffer "deflation". Apparently, the didn't manage to get around to that this year, for whatever reason. Now CUPE is fighing to have that increase taken up perpetually (at least in this contract) through TA wages. But of course, that is only one aspect of their demands.

Unless all departments guarantee their graduate students make a minimum (and sufficient) salary off of which they can life reasonably, there will be problems. Then again, not all fields in the real world offer the same pay (engineers, statistically, make a lot more out of their master's than, say, an english graduate). (I'm not trying to poke at english -- I respect the field -- I'm just using that unfortunately true example to highlight reality.)

Is that what you were after?

Here's an unforeseen problem:

If you fire all the TAs, you're also firing (nearly) all of the grad students, hence eliminating research grants by the thousand...given that each one is worth approximately 15 grand, this is an amount into the millions brought in annually by grad students each year (albeit, a rough estimate on my part).

Enjoy your skyrocketing tuition to make ends meet.


EDIT: Correction: I'm using an NSERC grant to get the "15 grand" estimate, but it's probably a bit less than this on average...regardless, the number of students completing theses every year definitely brings in money on the order of millions into the university.

Originally Posted by JMerolli

PPS. On a lighter note, in response to the undergrads living in the residences and their noise concerns – I think you might have an idea of how Westdale residents feel during Frosh Week and keggers. On the plus side, we aren’t puking on your lawns.

Perhaps that is an attempt to lighten things up, but it's really irrelevant. Not only do students in residence have to sleep there, it is their home, and some like to, and need to study, and relax there. It is their home.

Edit: as far as using the washroom, was there a window in there? If not, I expect that made an enormous difference...

Originally Posted by Eugene

The financial situation of the school had been analyzed thoroughly. While the school claims a projected deficit for the upcoming years, as a worst case scenario, my understanding is that McMaster had been in a surplus for a few recent consecutive years. At the same time, we must have all heard about the lucrative raises and retirement packages that the university administration had given themselves. There are many signs that a lack of funding should be the issue prevent the employer to agree to some of the proposed monetary items. Also, many of the outstanding issues are not monetary items.

As mentioned by another poster, being a TA was offered as an incentive to make end's meet as part of being a graduate student. While "no one is forcing us" to be TAs, this position was offered to support our living costs through graduate school and is an important part of how graduate fund themselves.

The last two of your statements did not seem relevant nor constructive, but I respect your opportunity to voice your opinions here.

Lastly, and not directed at you but just making a blanket statement. I think it would be nice for one to educate oneself on a subject matter and be brought up to speed on the relevant issues before making statements to perpetuate wrongfully placed hatred not based on facts but self-formed views on the subject.

Actually Eugene, my understanding is that in this last year, McMaster had a substantial structural deficit.

You are correct that at the end of the financial year, McMaster was in a surplus, but that was due to one-time funding from the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities.

Basically, it's not sustainable, and it would be like expecting to win the lottery every year.

http://www.workingatmcmaster .ca/li...aight-1-42.pdf

Originally Posted by macastr

I can't speak for the humanities/social sci, but my understanding is that in the arts faculties there aren't widespread scholarship options like NSERC/OGS/CIHR as there are for engineering, science, math and health sciences (as I said, I can't really speak for that field, but if someone can, please correct me). For those that are fortunate to be relatively well-funded, there is generally a "minimum" amount of total funding that a student receives (departments post this on their websites). This total includes TA wages, potential department-specific funding, and a stipend in the form of a research scholarship from your supervisor. If you have external scholarships like NSERC, these reduce the amount of funding your supervisor needs to contribute, and you end up making a bit more than the "minimum".

Is that what you were after?

Yes, thanks to you and JMerolli for clarifying.

I knew there had to be a discreptancy when looking at the demographic of the TAs crossing the line versus the ones that were picketing. It's good to know.

Just as a side though, I think arts students are allowed to apply to OGS - but not things like NSERC and CIHR. However, I think there seems to be a bias towards research (30% of the selection criteria), which not many arts students receive in undergrad.

Originally Posted by JMerolli

It is SOOO complex in many ways. But to generalize, science students get more "generous offers" which means the scholarship portion of their funding is more. Our TAship amounts are the same (unless you are only offered a "half TAship")

What we should also keep in mind is that while in school, paying tutition, and living, many of us have to pay for our own research projects. For example, my program and research project will require me to go abroad for field research. I will have to fund that myself, if I dont not recieve any external funding. While McMaster has a high rate of students on external funding (which reflects the qualify of grad students here) not everybody gets that money. Also, when you receive external funding, McMaster drops back your scholarship amount. This may have been what the person your spoke to meant.

Basic funding packages vary not only from faculty to faculty but also from department to department. What CUPE is trying to ensure is that those of us on only basic funding or with only small external scholarships (like me) can in fact live off that amount.

Hope that helps a bit.

McMaster prides itself in being a research focussed university, and the reality is that most of the "grunt work" of research is done by graduate students. McMaster is thus in competition with other universities for grad students and offers money in addition to TAships in the form of research scholarships to intice students to come. How much money is offered varies by department, some are incredibly wealthy relative to their size and offer (base) total packages in excess of the poverty line, whereas some offer nothing in addition to the guaranteed TAship. I'm not aware of anyone in the former category that is expected to fund their own research out of their take home pay, but perhaps someone can correct me on this.

An important point is that wealthy departments become wealthy because they recieve grants from external sources. The University itself benefits from departments (or professors) recieving grants because they take a significant percentage of that grant to continue operating, and the departments and professors benefit from their association with the university.

So to answer the original question, how much guaranteed money you recieve as a grad student is much more a function of what field you want to study and how popular that field is at the moment. In fact, the variation by department may be more than 10x what stands to be won or lost during this strike.