Originally Posted by lawleypop

Yea, fighting for livelihood.

I eat cereal twice a day if I'm REALLY hungry and feeling generous to myself.
You wanna talk about being poor? Wanna talk about fighting for livelihood?

Let's talk.

Cheri,

I had meant to merely provide some facts. I did not mean to be confrontational and don't see your hostility as warranted.

But, as an example, there was a man at the union meeting on Sunday indicating that the current contract (effective as of 2006, not the one proposed by the employer before the strike) does not offer job protection for his particular case. With the new offer, his pay could easy be less than his rent, (that means no food money, no bills), and his daughter could not go to day care (issues with benefits coverage on top of pay).

It just strikes us as odd that the employer is offering a package that is supposed to, for some, minimally fund people's stay during their program when the actual offer might mean quitting the degree program to be able to support their lives.

Originally Posted by Scrub

just to be clear..i am not protesting the idealogies or the politics of CUPE or the reasons for the strike..I am just against the idea of them disrupting student life like mine..and blatantly taking us students hostage during this whole thing..a little consideration for students is all I ask..bicker about all your issues on your own turf not infront of where I try to sleep

Scrub: I did not mean to make any remarks at you personally. What I meant was there are many channels that might make your voice heard more effectively (e.g. communications through school admin, CUPE office or consult with the police officer on-site about the noise etc.).

The vast majority of the union members do not have picketing experience, and the picketing protocol was just gelled earlier in the week by both McMaster and the Union. It's a...process, and voices from all sides are important.

Originally Posted by sniderj

You can't sign away constitutional rights. Not to get into a big issue of constitutional law or anything... but you sure can't.

You actually can to some extent (and it's freedom of expression in Canada not freedom of speech). If you sign a confidentiality agreement, you can't talk about whatever was protected in that agreement.

You can't say false, damaging things. Commercials can't have false advertising, etc.

Sorry, I got into the constitutional law thing and didn't actually mean for it to relate directly to the issue of posters in windows (although it does).

And yes, McMaster can kick you off the property even if you haven't done anything illegal.

Originally Posted by Rossclot

I can say right now my marks would be higher if the classes had run their course. If I get a shitty mark I want it to be on my own merit, not aided by a strike.

There are policies in place about if you feel like the work stoppage has affected your mark you can appeal it or something. I can dig up the links if you want them.

here it is: http://www.mcmaster.ca/senate/student/stoppage.htm

It is also posted on the front page

I have had enough of this. I am with the University 110% on this one. There is (@&%’ing) recession going on for God’s sake. Some of these protestors need to go and volunteer at the soup kitchens just to see how much worse other have it. If you can’t take the pressure then don’t become a T.A, no one is forcing you. Here’s what the University should do; “Fire them all”. I bet there are so many others who truly want to “teach”. People must learn to respect authority. If you’re unable to do your Job then get out.

Originally Posted by IHateCUPE

I have had enough of this. I am with the University 110% on this one. There is (@&%’ing) recession going on for God’s sake. Some of these protestors need to go and volunteer at the soup kitchens just to see how much worse other have it. If you can’t take the pressure then don’t become a T.A, no one is forcing you. Here’s what the University should do; “Fire them all”. I bet there are so many others who truly want to “teach”. People must learn to respect authority. If you’re unable to do your Job then get out.

1. The recession in Canada is over. I think that it is either over or almost over in the States as well.

2. I agree that it could be much worse. That does not mean they should let the employer walk all over them. Your post would suggest that you are in favour of a "big brother" type of system. That being said, the picketers are remaining within the law and have been complying to police requests.

3. You cannot "fire them all".

4. T.A.s are guaranteed to graduate students in order for them to supplement their income and thus make an amount of money that they (should) reasonable be able to live off of. They are offered as an incentive to come to Mac.

5. Your post would appear to lack anything constructive. Your method of delivery may have helped shroud anything constructive which you wanted to share with us. While I enjoy engaging in an informative discussion, posts like yours threaten to break down the discussion into a situation in which all sides are merely engaging in un-constructive bickering.

To be fair, in your example the graduate student's decision to have a kid might have something to do with the reason why he can't make ends meet with the amount of money that so many other graduate TAs can easily live off of. There has to be some personal responsibility involved, having a kid while still in school is not a good idea!

Originally Posted by IHateCUPE

I have had enough of this. I am with the University 110% on this one. There is (@&%’ing) recession going on for God’s sake. Some of these protestors need to go and volunteer at the soup kitchens just to see how much worse other have it. If you can’t take the pressure then don’t become a T.A, no one is forcing you. Here’s what the University should do; “Fire them all”. I bet there are so many others who truly want to “teach”. People must learn to respect authority. If you’re unable to do your Job then get out.

As a TA, I have to say that I take offense to this statement. I would point out that not all TAs have chosen to strike, nor have all TAs chosen to work. Not all are acting in the interests of the greater good, nor are all greedy. To say "fire them all" is just plain impertinent.

Originally Posted by talues

1. The recession in Canada is over. I think that it is either over or almost over in the States as well.

2. I agree that it could be much worse. That does not mean they should let the employer walk all over them. Your post would suggest that you are in favour of a "big brother" type of system. That being said, the picketers are remaining within the law and have been complying to police requests.

3. You cannot "fire them all".

4. T.A.s are guaranteed to graduate students in order for them to supplement their income and thus make an amount of money that they (should) reasonable be able to live off of. They are offered as an incentive to come to Mac.

5. Your post would appear to lack anything constructive. Your method of delivery may have helped shroud anything constructive which you wanted to share with us. While I enjoy engaging in an informative discussion, posts like yours threaten to break down the discussion into a situation in which all sides are merely engaging in un-constructive bickering.

1. It’s “Recession” not seasonal flu that comes in goes. In some cases its impact lasts the entire lifetime and destroys many lives. The difference between you and I, who are fortunate enough to attend this great institution then the ones who we left behind in high school, has much more to do with socio-economic class than intelligence. I don’t know which planet you’re living on but impact of this recession will outlive both us. But of course why should we care about others.

2. It’s affecting our studies; the test/assignments are not going mark themselves. Hitler was also following the law when he was massacring 6 million innocent souls.

3. Fire those who protest, keep the ones who don’t

4. Oh, I see so it’s only their studies that count, why don’t all us donate $1 to the hard working T.A’s so they can study with a peace of mind. While we are at it, let’s create a massage center where they can relax after each lecture.

Originally Posted by andrew22

no sarcasm! 100% free. Just like Norway, Finland and Cuba. (Greenland is the best as they will pay for your university education at any university in NA or Europe) : )

In Cuba, it is not 100% free for everyone. I know this for a fact. I have family from Cuba, and extended family in Cuba. Very few people get to go to university.

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

To be fair, in your example the graduate student's decision to have a kid might have something to do with the reason why he can't make ends meet with the amount of money that so many other graduate TAs can easily live off of. There has to be some personal responsibility involved, having a kid while still in school is not a good idea!

There are always student lines of credit, and other avenues to pursue for obtaining extra funding.

Originally Posted by IHateCUPE

2. It’s affecting our studies; the test/assignments are not going mark themselves. Hitler was also following the law when he massacring 6 million innocent souls.

BAM! Godwin's Law strikes again!

Originally Posted by IHateCUPE

I have had enough of this. I am with the University 110% on this one. There is (@&%’ing) recession going on for God’s sake. Some of these protestors need to go and volunteer at the soup kitchens just to see how much worse other have it. If you can’t take the pressure then don’t become a T.A, no one is forcing you. Here’s what the University should do; “Fire them all”. I bet there are so many others who truly want to “teach”. People must learn to respect authority. If you’re unable to do your Job then get out.

The financial situation of the school had been analyzed thoroughly. While the school claims a projected deficit for the upcoming years, as a worst case scenario, my understanding is that McMaster had been in a surplus for a few recent consecutive years. At the same time, we must have all heard about the lucrative raises and retirement packages that the university administration had given themselves. There are many signs that a lack of funding should be the issue prevent the employer to agree to some of the proposed monetary items. Also, many of the outstanding issues are not monetary items.

As mentioned by another poster, being a TA was offered as an incentive to make end's meet as part of being a graduate student. While "no one is forcing us" to be TAs, this position was offered to support our living costs through graduate school and is an important part of how graduate fund themselves.

The last two of your statements did not seem relevant nor constructive, but I respect your opportunity to voice your opinions here.

Lastly, and not directed at you but just making a blanket statement. I think it would be nice for one to educate oneself on a subject matter and be brought up to speed on the relevant issues before making statements to perpetuate wrongfully placed hatred not based on facts but self-formed views on the subject.

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

To be fair, in your example the graduate student's decision to have a kid might have something to do with the reason why he can't make ends meet with the amount of money that so many other graduate TAs can easily live off of. There has to be some personal responsibility involved, having a kid while still in school is not a good idea!

Point taken. As I said this was his particular case on how the new contract affects him. There are a couple of points I'd like to point out though:

While having children is a big financial commitment, it is up to an individual to decide when and where in life they will have children. The issue here is that as this gentleman entered school the contract, at the time, was sufficient to support his situation, and now part way through his program the new proposed contract will not. Other graduate TAs might not be affected by changes to child benefits either. Again, this is just my understanding of the situation.

As I mentioned, again in his particular case he does not receive the job protection that the rest of the graduate students do and (to my understanding) did not receive a TAship. One of the outstanding issue the union is fighting for is to provide job projection for people in this boat.

Another point re: having children through school: I am not sure how many of the audience and users of the forums are familiar with the financial structure of the grad program, so at the risk of stating the obvious, to you and others:

The financial arrangement for a graduate student is very different compared to that of an undergraduate student. Things are arranged such that the pay structure is analogous to having a (low paying) job, so that there is an incentive for students to enroll in further schooling as an option besides diving straight into a job. That said, it is not uncommon to come across graduate students with children. Some are just affected a lot more by the new contract proposed by the employer.