Originally Posted by JMerolli

I think its really important to learn about what exactly graduate school is and requires of people to understand our position. Rather then repeat myself, I have posted some info above. Please remember, we are researchers for the university as well. While there is variation on this, many of us support this research through our TAship. This is why the hourly wage is seems so high.

I think that you severely underestimate the understanding and experience of a huge number of people. Just saying...

Originally Posted by Kathy2

I completely agree. I haven't done the math so I don't know what each TA makes per month, but anything over $1,000 should be enough to live on. If it's not, maybe you should move into a less expensive place, get a roommate, eat Kraft Dinner for a few weeks, etc., like the rest of us.

To get a TA position, you have to receive pretty decent grades. Which means that you're probably eligible for many scholarships as well. I've read some of the comments on the CUPE blog where TAs say things like "I get $16,000 per year. Will I get less if the union succeeds in their demands?" And I have a friend (she was a TA last year); she managed to live in a Toronto apartment, by herself, and pay for her tuition and all other costs with the money she made from being a TA.

TAs are allowed to work more jobs OFF campus. They (like every other student working at Mac) are only allowed to work 10 hours per week ON campus. Other than that, they are free to do what they want.

Umm...there are also loans...from banks...where there is a will, there is a way.

Originally Posted by Kathy2

I completely agree. I haven't done the math so I don't know what each TA makes per month, but anything over $1,000 should be enough to live on. If it's not, maybe you should move into a less expensive place, get a roommate, eat Kraft Dinner for a few weeks, etc., like the rest of us.

To get a TA position, you have to receive pretty decent grades. Which means that you're probably eligible for many scholarships as well. I've read some of the comments on the CUPE blog where TAs say things like "I get $16,000 per year. Will I get less if the union succeeds in their demands?" And I have a friend (she was a TA last year); she managed to live in a Toronto apartment, by herself, and pay for her tuition and all other costs with the money she made from being a TA.

TAs are allowed to work more jobs OFF campus. They (like every other student working at Mac) are only allowed to work 10 hours per week ON campus. Other than that, they are free to do what they want.

That's pretty much just it. I don't understand how if I can get by on minimum wage with loans/lines of credit/etc along with tons of other students, why these other people can't get by on $1,600 a month?

Maybe its because I don't consider going to The Keg for dinner every other night and partying every weekend 'normal living expenses'?

Originally Posted by spyder83

That's pretty much just it. I don't understand how if I can get by on minimum wage with loans/lines of credit/etc along with tons of other students, why these other people can't get by on $1,600 a month?

I hear ya...
My rent is 400 a month, utilities about 50ish.

I spend about 50-70 bucks max a month on food (and that's being generous).

I would be SO HAPPY with 1600 bucks a month.
To eat something other than cereal and soup would be pretty cool.

Originally Posted by JMerolli

FYI I just recieved confirmation from Richard that he did not cancel his class.

I believe you have him confused with Govind Rao from Political Science. Some other people are making their class material available online.

But I stand by my statement that Richard's work as MUFA points to the problems within the University on how money is spent.

As a CLA, with much weaker job security that a tenures professor, Govind's decision to stand up to the University is truly amazing. He is one of the most dedicated profs I have met, so again I know this wasn't an easy decision for him.class.

Perhaps I did mix up to the two. But regardless.. When a prof doesn't cross the picket line (especially a seminar prof for fourth year), he is directly screwing over students.
So what's the point? Don't cross the picket line and potentially make final year students stay longer at school to get the credits they need. Or cross the picket line (ONE person isn't going to make a difference) and don't screw over students.

I don't see how someone can support CUPE and think that the university is doing wrong, while at the same time doing wrong to students.

Originally Posted by daisy

I think that you severely underestimate the understanding and experience of a huge number of people. Just saying...

Its really unclear to me how many people know since based on statements made here and questions I've recieved, there is a lot of misinformation. I am happy to hear you think I am wrong on that.

I often think what gets lost in all of this discussion is our role as researchers at this University. It is true, that some people have very generous external scholarhips. However, this isn't often the case.

I made an error in terms of working off campus. Although, off campus work is strongly discouraged. At the same time, we are required to inform the school of graduate studies on changes to our employment status.

According to the School of graduate studies, these are our responsibilities:

Under the regulations of the Government of Ontario, A full-time
graduate student must:
(a) be pursuing his or her studies as a full-time occupation;
(b) identify himself or herself as a full-time graduate student;
(c) be designated by the university as a full-time graduate student;
(d) be geographically available and visit the campus regularly.
Without forfeiting full-time status, a graduate student, while still
under supervision, may be absent from the university (e.g.
visiting libraries, doing field work, attending a graduate course at
another institution, etc.) provided that, if any such period of
absence exceeds four weeks in any one term, written evidence
shall be available in the Graduate Studies Office to the effect that
the absence has the approval of the Chairman (sic) of the
Department and the Associate Vice-President & Dean of
Graduate Studies;
(e) be considered to be a full-time graduate student by his/her
supervisor or equivalent (designated by the university).

Note (a). 16,000 for a full time job doesn't seem so good anymore does it?

For a student going to school full time? That sounds AMAZING!!!

Originally Posted by JMerolli

Its really unclear to me how many people know since based on statements made here and questions I've recieved, there is a lot of misinformation. I am happy to hear you think I am wrong on that.

I often think what gets lost in all of this discussion is our role as researchers at this University. It is true, that some people have very generous external scholarhips. However, this isn't often the case.

I made an error in terms of working off campus. Although, off campus work is strongly discouraged. At the same time, we are required to inform the school of graduate studies on changes to our employment status.

According to the School of graduate studies, these are our responsibilities:

Under the regulations of the Government of Ontario, A full-time
graduate student must:
(a) be pursuing his or her studies as a full-time occupation;
(b) identify himself or herself as a full-time graduate student;
(c) be designated by the university as a full-time graduate student;
(d) be geographically available and visit the campus regularly.
Without forfeiting full-time status, a graduate student, while still
under supervision, may be absent from the university (e.g.
visiting libraries, doing field work, attending a graduate course at
another institution, etc.) provided that, if any such period of
absence exceeds four weeks in any one term, written evidence
shall be available in the Graduate Studies Office to the effect that
the absence has the approval of the Chairman (sic) of the
Department and the Associate Vice-President & Dean of
Graduate Studies;
(e) be considered to be a full-time graduate student by his/her
supervisor or equivalent (designated by the university).

Note (a). 16,000 for a full time job doesn't seem so good anymore does it?

But you're not being paid to be a grad student. You're being paid for your part time job as a TA.
Most students are full time students with part time jobs, and very few make $16,000 a year.

So, yes, $16,000 does sound amazing.

I just wanted to note that we are asking to maintain our current benefits levels. And for those who think we are spoiled our plans includes

one claim of up to 250 every 24 months for vision care
100 per annum for childcare
100 UHIP rebate

I am not complaning but its not like we have some crazy generous plan either - especially in regards to childcare.

Also, while its true we all have awesome grades, that doesn't make grants very easy to get. Compounding that is the fact that certain governments have not prioritized funding for graduate studies and there have been cuts to those programs over the last few years.

More importantly, 5th and 6th PhD are not elligable for most grants.

Kathy, we are offered our TAship as part of our funding for graduate studies. Its refered to as the "basic funding" often. I will try to track down my offer letter, so you can see it first hand. This money is intended to support me through my research. The university is only now maintaining they are seperate because its suits their interests. They are underminding and ignoring the basis upon which graduate studies has operated for decades.

I still don't think it's worth pissing everyone else off...

Originally Posted by JMerolli

More importantly, 5th and 6th PhD are not elligable for most grants.

One of my professors has been taking issue with this. You're supposed to be finished your PhD in four years. Why should you be rewarded for going over time?

If you take an extra year of undergrad because you weren't able to finish in three or four years, do you get special rewards for that 5th year? Nope. PhD students shouldn't be any different. You're not supposed to be there for five years... the world's not a forgiving place.

Originally Posted by micadjems

I still don't think it's worth pissing everyone else off...

Well, it seems like they do think it's worth pissing everyone off.

You know what they say: "The greater good for the less amount of people."
owait.

There's quite a large difference between graduate students and undergraduate students though. Assuming that a student takes 5 courses with 3-5 hours/per class that's about 15-25 hours per week. Obviously faculties like engineering have significantly more time spent in class.

In contrast, a graduate student will conduct research Monday to Friday from 8-5 PM, possibly longer depending on deadlines and whether work needs to be done for abstracts/publications. I'd say a minimum of 40-48 hours/week. When I worked at the University of Toronto, many of the graduate students also worked on the weekends in order to complete their projects during the summer. On top of that, they also have to do typical things like doing coursework, preparing for comprehensive exams or committee meetings, keeping up to date through primary literature, and writing publications/abstracts, etc.

Also, graduate studies are significantly different than undergraduate studies as marks and thesis writing is less important. Instead, attending research conferences like the AACR and getting published in scientific papers are far more important. This is beneficial for the university as it:
1) Increases the school's academic reputation
2) Increases the likelihood of funding for the supervisor and university.

It is in the university's best interest that graduate students devote their time towards conducting research as opposed to holding a minimum wage job for the reasons that I mentioned earlier. Plus, the more productive a graduate student is at research = better chance of getting external scholarships like OGS/NSERC/CIHR/SSHRC scholarships, which in turn lessens the financial burden on the university.

Also, I've mentioned this earlier, but if you're working with chemicals like radioisotopes or carcinogens being exhausted from working 3 jobs (TAing, researching, any part-time stuff) can be quite dangerous not only to the graduate students but others working around them.

Personally, I would be able to live off of a TA-ship of $16 000; however, I can understand JMerolli's point about graduate studies being like full-time job in terms of the number of hours worked.

edit:

It's referred to as the "basic funding" often. I will try to track down my offer letter, so you can see it first hand. This money is intended to support me through my research.

According to the Biology Department:
M.Sc. = $19,500
Ph.D. = $21,500

But I believe it's less for students in the Arts.

Originally Posted by Taunton

One of my professors has been taking issue with this. You're supposed to be finished your PhD in four years. Why should you be rewarded for going over time?

If you take an extra year of undergrad because you weren't able to finish in three or four years, do you get special rewards for that 5th year? Nope. PhD students shouldn't be any different. You're not supposed to be there for five years... the world's not a forgiving place.

This is just another example of the major differences between the faculties represented by the Union.

In Science, Engineering, Health Sci, and Business, most people finish pretty close to when they are supposed to.

In Humanities and Soc. Sci., the average time to completion is longer.

http://www.mcmaster.ca/graduate/timecom.pdf

Knowing that your funding is going to end at a fixed date is a very good motivator to get your research done.